Episode 11: Leadership, Relationships, and the Things I Keep from MLM

Erin: [00:00:00] This is my friend, Tara. You guys are going to get to know her over the next hour. And, you know, I am, I’m very excited to hear your story because we went through our What we’ll call MLM experience together and didn’t know each other that well knew each other through the grapevine, knew each other through events, you know, you know, we’re friends and, and probably saw the highlight reel in person.

Right? So I actually don’t know your story and I don’t know what happened to you. And I was probably living parallel and going through some really hard stuff at the same time you were. Um, but I would have never shared it at the time. And I bet. You didn’t either. And so I’m really intrigued to hear your story.

I hope that it’s healing. I hope that the conversation, um, Tara won’t say this out loud, but she’s very nervous. So nothing to be nervous about. Uh, we’re just both going to say dumb stuff probably over the next hour, because we’ve both agreed that when we get anxiety, we say dumb stuff. [00:01:00] So it is what it is.

Um, but yeah, if you want to just kind of tell these guys who you are and where you’re living your life, these guys are out in Arizona. I’m very jealous of, of the Arizona weather. We’re in Missouri, which is like either 104 degrees or it’s snowing. She knows very much what I’m That’s why I

moved

Tara: away from that, Ms.

Erin: Clark. I know. You guys, do you love it out there?

Tara: Oh, gosh, I love it. Like a lot of people like kind of dog us because the heat, but like, I’ll take 120 over negative 20 and worrying about the ice and the snow because I grew up in South Dakota. So, you know, in South Dakota, it, it snows not in inches, in feet. Then you get school canceled when it’s negative 50 wind chill.

And that’s happens because the kids can’t sit at the bus stop. Yeah. So that’s why we had school canceled quite a bit. And so, and then Kansas city is cold. So Brandon was like. Like literally [00:02:00] on a whim, he was like, let’s move to Arizona. I was like, cool. Hadn’t even been there. Hadn’t seen Scottsdale. I was like, no, it’s

Erin: beautiful.

It’s a beautiful city. And that’s how we make life decisions too.

Tara: It’s like, why mull over it? Like let’s just do it. Let’s do it. It’s very impulsive. Like when we had our third kid, it happened in a day. I had a weak moment. One day, pregnant, I’m like, Oh God, there we go. Yeah. So yeah, three, three beautiful children, ten, seven, almost eight.

And then one that just turned four. Yay. Two boys and a girl. So. Yeah. It’s fun.

Erin: Yes. And you are home now raising those babies. I see them riding their little bikes and doing all their crazy kid stuff. Mm-hmm. . Um, but that wasn’t always the case. You were home, but you were doing what we’re gonna call MLM.

Um, tell me your, tell me, let’s go back in [00:03:00] time. Okay. Where were you when you got introduced? To the whole MLM space. What was happening in your life back then? So

Tara: I had graduated grad school. Um, I went on to have an internship in Washington, D. C. So about a month after, uh, Brandon and I got married, I got this amazing opportunity to go get a paid internship in Washington, D.

1. and work on Capitol Hill. And my, uh, master’s degree is in public policy. So I was like, cool, let’s do it. So when out there, I mean, it was a great experience. Um, I was ready to roll. Like I want to do this, you know? And then I slowly understood that I am not like those people. And I think we know why, you know what I mean?

I was like, I have too many morals for this. So then I kind of started to like, try to get a job in the, in that kind of an arena, cause that’s, you know, where my degree was from and I was overqualified with a master’s degree. And I’m [00:04:00] like, so I couldn’t get a job. And I applied for all these jobs. I had the best grades.

I applied for all these jobs. You’re overqualified. And I’m like, but I want a job. Like I’ll take, I’ll take the 14, you know, back then it was like $14 an hour, right? Like I just wanted a job. Um, and so that’s when Brandon was like, This isn’t working out. You just come work with me because he’s a financial advisor.

Uh, so I was doing kind of some of the backend stuff and then, um, so I was doing, I was working with him and then I was introduced to the company in, I want to say May of 20, when was Jackson born? 2012. Sorry. Like lots of like a lot of events going on. So yeah. So in May of 2012, um, and I was not pregnant at that time.

I was just Brandon and I, and, um, yeah, and that’s kind of how it started was in 2012.

Erin: What, [00:05:00] um, what intrigued you about the space? Obviously it was the hunt for a job, but was there anything that you remember standing out?

Tara: Um, do you know, and, and I think that you, you really refer to it in a previous, uh, podcast about how, you know, when you’re empty, right.

And you’re looking for something to be part of. Yeah, that was really intriguing for me because I’m very introverted. That’s just, I am. Um, you know, I don’t, I’m not great at like small talk, but I am really good at like deep philosophical conversations. It’s a small talk that I don’t. So I just had kind of a, you know, a hard time with friends and stuff like that.

Um, and so, you know, it, uh, you know, somebody contacted me, probably Hey, girl message. I don’t remember, but it was like, Hey, do you want to try this? It’s like, cool. Yeah, sure. Try to thought it worked, right? You know, at that time, and I [00:06:00] think, and I remember telling this person, like, I don’t even know why I asked her.

It’s so weird because I’m not a salesperson. Like, what does it take to sell these? And she said, do you know four people? I was like, sure. Yeah, I know four people. And that’s how it started. I knew four people cause I do the four pack. Right. Yeah. So I was like, okay, cool. You know, and my business just exploded right away.

I mean, it was. It was crazy. And that’s when we were selling things that we didn’t even have in stock. You remember that, right? We didn’t even have it. Right. And so I, you know, I got that one of the bonuses within like the first month or I can’t remember. I’ve kind of like blanked it out just because it wasn’t a great time in my life.

Um, but I had gotten that first bonus and. That was, that was it, man. I was, I was sold, you know, and, and I think Brandon was even sold a little bit. Um,

Erin: I’m going to ask [00:07:00] you, what did Brandon think? What were his initial impressions?

Tara: So Brandon’s very street smart. He’s very smart, but he’s street smart. And so he can read people very easily.

And I think, you know, he’s the type of husband that like, He will support me in anything I do. It could be completely dangerous, not even make any sense. And he’s like, do it. Like, if that’s what you want to do, you do it. You know what I mean? And I’m the type where like, I don’t just halfway do things if I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it.

And I’m going to be the best I can at it. Cause I just have that internal drive. Um, so I think when he saw the, you know, the first couple of paychecks, it was like, okay. You know, but he was doing well. So it’s not like we were struggling, but I wanted something to call my own. Sure. You know, cause I was his assistant.

He was doing well, but it wasn’t me. Right. And I just wanted something of my own. And so I just, this was it. And I was going for it. You know what I mean? Uh, and yeah, that the [00:08:00] first bonus that I was pretty easy to obtain for me there, there wasn’t really. A lot of struggle with that, you know, past that, you know, we’ll talk about that, but that’s when it became a little bit more difficult and a lot of finagling finding things to fit into boxes, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. So, so that’s kind of how it started. And that was in June of 2012 when I first hit that first bonus. I think

Erin: I came in after you because I did not, I was not around when there was a shortage of products. I came in right afterwards. So I never experienced that like backdated thing. Um, but what’s crazy to me and, you know, fast forward to 2023 and.

I would have had that as such a red flag back then. If, if I were, if, if I were in the shoes that I’m in today, Erin Clark, 2023, if there was this schnazzy company with people having wild success on social media with a [00:09:00] product that was not that didn’t exist and people were getting charged for things that they weren’t getting yet.

I would have been like, but back then for me and what I think happened, um, with us, cause I came in right afterwards. Was that, that was the sign that it was good, right? That everybody wanted, we had, and it almost made it more appealing. Like it almost made it. Easier to get that initial oomph. I remember hearing those stories of like, we just, we were, we were running with our pants on fire.

We didn’t even know what was happening and there wasn’t even any product available because it was on, it was like a shortage. Um, and I think that added to the intrigue. So, so you went through that and then, um, you said your, what was your first bonus? What do you think? What, what, when you said that first bonus, what were the checks that you remember when you look back and think like, oh my gosh, this is going to be a big deal.

What were they?

Tara: Over a thousand dollars. Mortgage within that first month. Mm-hmm. . And that was, for me, that was like, you know, cool. And [00:10:00] then if you add that bonus on top, I think that was $400. Yep. Um, and that’s one that I didn’t have an issue with maintaining. Now going, now going back to like the shortage of products, like to me, yeah.

Right now it’s a red flag. But the way it was meant, we

were given the script and it made sense to me. It was like, our products are so hot. We can’t keep them in stock. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, Oh, you got to get in line. You’ve got to pay this. And you know, I’ve had to, uh, go through lots of forgiving myself, you know, in this process. And it’s been, been challenging because I think it made me be a person that I’m not.

Um You know, I, I’m very much, you know, very compassionate person. I love people and, you know, putting people in a position where they may not be successful is something [00:11:00] that I did. Um, and I, and I feel badly for it. I really do. Um, I don’t want to cry. But, uh, you know, it was, it was pretty hard, you know, because I’m very much, like I said, I’m a compassionate person.

Like I want everybody to win. I don’t care what, what you do. If you’re a lawyer, if you, you know, work an eight to five, I, I mean, you know, each do his own. I don’t, I personally don’t care what you do, as long as you’re happy. Yep. But I probably wasn’t happy then. I was very, very stressed.

I was extremely stressed out. I wasn’t sleeping. I was working 15 to 16 hours

Erin: a day. Was that from the beginning? Or did you just like start and just never stop? What, why do you think you said you’re an all or nothing person? Do you think that was what lent to the just frenzy of working all day, grinding it out?

Tara: Yeah. And I think that maybe some of the things that were said to us [00:12:00] really stuck in my head. And I think that they were very good at manipulating, especially moms. Cause when I started, I wasn’t pregnant and I, and fast forward, I gave birth to Jackson in June of 2013. Right. So that was like, When you have a child, and they’re talking about, you know, this is what we do for our kids, we work for our kids, and then we’re not gonna have to work again, and I’m like, all right, like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this for my kids.

Yeah. And it was genuine and it was, I wanted to make my family better, you know, and I wanted to be able to contribute and, you know, take some of the pressure off of Brandon. And so that was my, you know, that’s what I wanted to do and that was my, the implications for probably doing some of the things that I did that I shouldn’t have done.

Erin: When, when do you think the shift happened? Because there, [00:13:00] for me, and maybe this wasn’t the case for you, but I bet it was. For me, there was a really, there was a period where there was two parallel things happening. There was a period of time where I really felt like I was doing something decent, where I felt like, and I felt like I had seen all the success stories and I felt like if they could do it, I could do it.

And if I could do it, other people could do it. And I just, I think I was just so blind to anything else that I was just heads down working, but I still really liked it. Like I was still very excited. Now the parallel is that I think from day one, I saw some red flags and I just tucked them away. And I think that’s, do you think that’s where some of the guilt comes from?

That’s where my guilt comes from is that I think deep down, I knew that it was off, but I was just so hopeful that I, I kept going. Do you feel like you experienced that?

Tara: Yes. Um, and I kind of tried to, you know, kind [00:14:00] of switch my thinking a little bit because I saw the red flags and I was like, but not really, you know what I mean?

Like I would, I would just tell myself like, no, you know, you know, cause you have this, you know, I’m, I’m very Christian. I’m very, very devout. Right. And so when you see that, and then, you know, you’ve got a Christian company, I mean, I was like, this is the real deal, you know, like when they can talk about things that are important to me, family, faith, things to that nature, like that sucked me in.

And I think if it weren’t for that piece. Of the Christianity piece, I would not have been sucked in so much. And I think that’s where, you know, a lot of that came from. Um, was just, I mean, I was at everything. I travel it all the time. It makes me sad. Jackson was a, Jackson was a month old. Jackson was a month old and, uh, [00:15:00] colic.

Kid never slept. He screamed all day. And yeah, he was about a month and then, uh, a month old, you know, first baby. And I decided that I was going to go to St. Louis. You probably remember the one, right? St. Louis. So, you know, whatever, that’s just what you do. You just travel and, you know, I came home and I remember, this is so funny.

So, you know, it’s our first kid. So we, we don’t know what we’re doing, right? Like nobody knows what they’re doing when they’re parenting. Um, so then I come home. It was like midnight or something by the time I got home. Brandon is shirtless. Okay, seriously. Jackson is naked and Jackson won’t stop crying and Brandon can’t figure out how to do it.

I walk in. It’s midnight. He just goes. Here it goes to bed. I’m like, sorry, I didn’t mean to do this to you. You know, and looking back, that’s another one of my things where I was, should have been like, why did I do that? Like, [00:16:00] was it worth it? Like, you know what I mean? Like, was it worth it to leave my one month old baby for this?

I, I still don’t know. I still don’t know how I

Erin: feel about that. Yeah. So you started off strong. You made your first check. You made your first bonus. Um, eventually along the way you got pregnant with Jackson. Was it good for a while longer after that? When did things start to change for you? What was, what was the rest of your story in that space? Well,

Tara: there’s there’s a few different things that were going on. Uh, so the second level I was able to hit two months after the first one. So then I’m on double. Right. Okay. That was easy to I had no I no problems with maintaining I didn’t have to do any like the sneaky stuff. So everything was good there.

But, you know, I remember posts, I hate memories. I hate Facebook memories. In fact, I just go in and delete them. I was like, I can’t [00:17:00] even watch this stuff. But I remember, you know, posting videos, like I’m so glad I can stay home with my child. But at the same time, I don’t even remember raising him. I don’t remember anything.

I do not remember anything from birth to three years old. I was completely out. I was up at five o’clock in the morning, making calls, sending emails, sending messages, you know, Brandon with Jackson ready, and then I would be trying to work with Jackson, paying him no attention at all, putting him in a jumper, and I was like, I gotta go.

You know, working holidays. You know that that’s when the big sales came out, you know, so I missed out on a lot of holidays because all I was doing is working at large family gatherings. I go in the bathroom and like do the phone thing. Right. And Brandon would be like, “you’re working again, it’s Christmas.”

But to me, I was like, “this is a great opportunity.” It’s on [00:18:00] sale and dah, dah, dah. And he was just like, “whatever,” you know what I mean? And so I think they, especially when you have a child that adds another layer, right? Because you’re like. It can be switched around on you. And it’s like, I know you’re tired.

I know you have a kid, but like, if you really want to change your, your child’s future, you need to put in all these hours. And so when you’re a new mom, you’re like, I want to do whatever I can to. Help my child. You know what I mean? And so I think that’s, you know, and then I got pregnant with Max and so then I had two and then there was more of a drive.

So, so that’s kind of how I think that, uh, they are able to manipulate mothers who have children. Absolutely.

Erin: You know, in any world and in any job and in any career and and all the leadership books and all the [00:19:00] things they use a term, why “the why,” or your purpose or whatever is the word that they choose.

And I believe in that. I believe that as humans, we need something inside that is driving us to do what we are meant to do. But in these spaces, it is fully manipulated. And in these spaces, I truly believe that they take what would be a why. And they just, they just burn it out until you’re, you’re literally burnt to nothing.

You know what I’m saying? Like, I, I, I think you’re using exactly the terminology that so many people want to say out loud, which is, I, I was doing this for my child, but I don’t even remember my child. And I was told over and over and over again that nothing I did was ever enough. And that I would, if I really loved my child, I would just try harder.

Or harder.

Tara: Yep. If you really loved your [00:20:00] child, I don’t even know how many times, you know, cause Jackson wasn’t sleeping. He was a very difficult baby. I postpartum at the time, you know, and so that, that was a difficult thing to go through. Uh, you know, so we got that layer. Um, and then, you know, just again, like you said, they, they just like, if you really love your kids, you You’ll work on Christmas Eve.

If you really love your kids, you’ll work on New Year’s Eve. If you really love your kids. And so the internal mom says, I really love my kids. And anything you say I’m going to do because I love them that much. And I think that that was on that side. I’m going to say that was brilliant for them. It was very traumatizing for us, but it was brilliant.

Cause they knew that the mama bears, like I will walk through fire for my kids. Absolutely. Walk through fire.

Erin: Well, and I think that you mentioned something at the very beginning that maybe is just subconscious as you went through your journey, but they also [00:21:00] really appealed to a lot of lonely people and a lot of people who wanted to be a part of something.

So they built a really strong culture of working on holidays and grinding it out. And then I don’t even think that’s just MLM. I think that’s just the United States today that you don’t like. You have value unless you’re grinding and hustling. And the only way that you have success is if you work harder than anyone else in the room.

I mean, I think that’s a cultural thing, but I also think that. They brought in vulnerable women. Let’s, let’s just talk about women. Let’s not even mention the men. Cause there are lots of men that have the same kind of PTSD. It just comes out in different ways, but women who wanted to be a part of something who had babies and who just got fed the same line over and over and over again.

So not only were you going to disappoint your child, but you weren’t going to be a part of that crowd who. You desperately wanted to be a part of that’s how I felt and [00:22:00] I and I never really felt like I was a part of the in crowd like I kind of fought it a little bit. Um, but my desire and like my trauma that came out in that space was I’ll prove you wrong.

Like I’ll work harder than any of you so that I can prove I’m worthy. Which I think they knew they were doing too. I think the brilliance behind it was to make people like you feel like you were going to fit in. And people like me feel like if I just work hard enough, I’ll prove to them that I’m worthy.

Same thing.

Tara: Yep. Yes. No, I totally agree with that. I mean, you know, like I said, I’m, I’m, I’m all or nothing. So I’m either going to work zero hours a day or I’m in work 16. Yeah. That’s just, that’s just how I am. And, uh. Yeah, I mean, I, I missed out on a lot of childhood, a lot of their, their early years. And I don’t remember quite a lot of it, quite honestly.

Um, I really don’t, you know, and I made all these posts about how I’m a stay at home mom and da, da, da, [00:23:00] da, da. But it should have been like, who doesn’t see your kids? You know what I mean? Cause it’s just, you’re just not like, you can create this facade and all your posts and, you know, putting how much money you’re making and this and that.

And it’s like, it’s just a complete lie. You’re just posting lie after lie after lie, but it’s validated when you’re in that space, right? Because everybody else is doing it. And so I’m just, you know, again, the introvert trying to fit in, you know, and kind of have some friends, you know, because I. Yeah. I’m just shy.

I’m introverted. You know, anybody who really knows me, you probably remember me. I was very shy. Uh, you know, I didn’t really like to talk to people. And so I wanted to, yeah, definitely be part of something that I felt like I belonged in because I was so kind of empty. Uh, you know, cause I went to school for [00:24:00] so long.

I didn’t use my degree. And so I’m like, what, like, what am I supposed to do now? Yep. Can’t find a job ever applied for 100 and I’m too overqualified. So I’m like, you know, I work with Brandon, but I was helping him, but I wasn’t having a paycheck. So I like wanted something of my own. Right. And I think a lot of stay at home moms want that.

Cause they’re not making an income. So they desperately want to have something of their own, you know, to spend on makeup or whatever they like, you know what I mean? Um, so yeah, they’re, they’re

Erin: very savvy at that. So a couple of years in, you had a couple of babies, you were working like a slave. Um, what was, what was Brandon saying then?

What was your home life, um, with your spouse at that point, because you were making some good checks. You had to have been making some. Some good money. I know it’s successful, but I know he also saw you working like a slave. What was the dynamic then? I [00:25:00] know you’ve mentioned some stuff with your, with your home life.

What, what was that like?

Tara: Yeah. I mean, I think he, I remember him saying just a few times, you know, they’re really good at dangling that carrot in front of you, Tara, and you take it every single time. And I was like, of course I do, you know, I’m blinded by that, that, that, that, that, that, and he just made, you know, like he’s a very supportive person.

So he would never said like quit do this, blah, blah, blah. But you know, we did not have date. We didn’t do a lot of date nights because that was working. You know, on weekend nights, I was working everywhere. I went, I was at the park. I wasn’t playing, paying attention to my kid. I was on my phone, always on my phone, always on my phone, always on my phone.

You know, and actually I had a, it’s probably still going around. There’s a, I had somebody wanted me to make a video of my hundreds list and how I, how to, how I utilize that. You can probably still find that on YouTube [00:26:00] and it was watched like 10, 000 times. Um, about how, how I did that and, uh, yeah, that, that was just kind of how I rolled.

And I was always on my phone. I had, you know, the big old note card thing. So I could see when I contacted people and I’d, you know, put the, put the date and then rearrange them. So when I woke up in the morning, I know exactly who to contact and I kind of streamlined it a little bit. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I would say easily, easily on a, on a quiet day, I’m working 12 hours.

Yeah, nonstop. Not eating. That’s what I was doing. Yeah, I fully sacrificed everything.

Erin: What was your breaking point?

Tara: This is the sad part. So when did we move to Arizona? Like seven years ago. So that would have been 20. It was like 2016, 2017 because Max [00:27:00] was like a year old and Jackson would have been three. So we moved and I was pretty excited because I was like, Oh, I mean, first thing in my mind is, Oh, I can build a business in Arizona because these are all new people because Kansas city was pretty taken care of.

Right. Yeah. So that’s, so I was excited about that. And I came down here and uh, Jackson, my oldest, was like three and a half and, uh, he was having some pretty severe, um, issues with behaviors, um, lots of aggression toward myself, lots of biting, kicking, pulling my hair, um, and it was really hard because I didn’t know anybody, you know, and he would elope in public.

So I would have to have max on my show on my hip, you know, he was one Jackson would be bolting across the parking lot eloping. And so I’m chasing him because he has no fear of danger at this point. So I’m chasing him. I’m trying to get in. He would run into paint stores. This is a true story, run into paint stores, and he would take his [00:28:00] arms out and just knock all the paint.

On the floor, he’d walk into CVS, knock everything down. He would jump behind the cash registers and start pushing buttons. We went through the airport. He turned off the, what is it? You know, like when you, um, when you give the ticket to the guy, they’re like the, you don’t want to go to the security. with flickering.

Yeah. So he would turn everything off and it was like, okay, I’m sorry. So then he went through all these evaluations and, um, yeah, we found these autistic with severe ADHD. Um, and so I tried to do it at the same time, but I like to explain it. And I explained it to the same people I was talking to, like, you know, if you have a patience, like your patience is like 10.

Right. But if my child requires nine, I only have 1 percent of patience to give to run this [00:29:00] team of thousands of people and just keep it going. And I was like, I just can’t do this. I can’t do this. I have to choose my child first because there was a lot of different things going on. And I do, I, I was at a, at a breaking point.

And so, um, I remember exactly where I was, I was standing outside, Jackson’s driving his little car around in a circle and I called my person. And I said, yeah, you know, I’ve got this going on and I, I just, I can’t manage it anymore. Like I can’t. And you know, if I’m continuing to use all this time on my team, I have no patience for my child.

So I’m lashing out my child who does not know how to control himself. That was something that I should have been doing. So I finally kind of saw the light and I was, you know, I called her. I said, I just can’t do this anymore, explained a little bit more. And she said, well, “you’re just going to throw in the towel, huh?”

And I was like, [00:30:00] I don’t remember what I said. I don’t think I like went off on her, but I was like, yeah, I am. And then, uh, I lost every single friend that I had or that I thought I had, right. Cause it’s fake friends. They’re only using you. They’re using you for money. That’s what they’re using you for. They need you.

At that point, they needed me to desperately be very wildly successful so that they could be wildly successful because I was under them in the little chart tree. Right. So that, that was it, you know, and it was. You know, a lot of bonus buying and I was convinced to do it, you know, to get all these thousands upon thousands of dollars of product that I didn’t need.

Um, and then shamefully, you know, I had to, I didn’t have to, but I chose to, um, [00:31:00] encourage others to do the same thing. When I knew that at that point they were not financially capable of doing that. So that, you know, I don’t, I don’t feel great about that. You know, that as a very, you know, compassionate, open, honest person, that was a hard, that was hard for me.

Yeah. To do, put them in that space. Put them in that bad spot, knowing their check probably wouldn’t cover that amount of money that they’ve spent, but it was just the pressure. It was pressure from up to down, you know, and that, that gets to you, especially as someone who’s, you know, you know, introverted, doesn’t have a lot of direction, I guess, you know, and you’re just kind of stuck in your life.

So what they say you do, they say you do, and then you pass that on. And so, yeah, not the best days of my life.

Erin: So when [00:32:00] you called and said, “I literally can’t do this, I cannot manage this. I have to take care of. I have to use 10 out of 10 to take care of this little guy.” And if you, they said, you know, “are you just going to throw in the towel?”

Did you just, did you resign or did you just go silent? I mean, did they follow up with you at all? Did

Tara: they, you never followed up with me? Nope. Nobody cared. They Erin. Of all the times in my life, that was literally the most difficult part in my life. I love Jacks. I love all my kids, you know, but they are all autistic, all three of them.

So, you know, it, it’s a, it’s a different layer of patience. And then you’ve got to read all the books and do all these things. And it was so, I don’t think anybody is quite aware of how hard that was. You know, when you have a three year old kicking you in the stomach, pissing all over the house when he was mad because he didn’t know how to express his feelings.

Yeah. Pull my [00:33:00] hair, punch me, scrape me down my arms, uh, run away from me. He would throw rocks at therapists. I mean, it was, it was really, really hard. Uh, we couldn’t find a school for him. So at that point, you know, I had him like pretty much full time. And I was like, Like I literally, at the end of the night, I crash, I can’t stay up till midnight doing all this bullshit.

No, you know, I can’t. And so I kind of had a Present over Perfect that book. Yeah, I read it at the pool one day at our pool. We lived up north in that her own part of Scottsdale and I read that book and I was like, Okay, I got my answer now. Yeah. And I was okay with it. And I’m still okay with it. Now it like, I would never go back there.

There’s zero, zero out of zero. So, yeah, so I just, um, yeah, you know, I, I was, I felt pretty depressed, you know, [00:34:00] because I thought these people were loyal to me. I thought that they were real friends. And as soon as I wasn’t able to give them what they needed so that they could grow even bigger. I, so all I did is, you know, I, I, uh.

Collected, just collected the residual paychecks I had, you know, they go down, down, down, down, but it was like free money, so I collected those until it got to zero and that’s when I, when I turned in my official resignation and, you know, they just,

the way they set things up was just so planned. You know what I mean? It’s like, you hit X amount rank, you get to send in a picture of family, and then it’s on the wall, you know, okay, so that’s cool. So now, now I have a place to belong, right? And then, you know, you go to these events, and then you get to sit in the special section, you know, so that that was, that was cool.

You know, I remember going like my first year [00:35:00] to the big annual conference, and I told Brandon, he was sitting next to me, and I was only like level one bonus, you know, I’m talking about and uh, I told him, I said, I am never sitting back here again. I’m never sitting back here again. Never sat back there again.

Yeah. So it’s like, I’m not, I’m not waiting in these lines because I was pregnant. People were like running over me. It was like crazy. Uh, so yeah, I was like, I’m never sitting back there again. And I never did.

Erin: You know, that part of you, um, is a good part of you and. If you were, you know, in, if you were an attorney and showing up to a, a conference for attorneys and decided I’m going to be at the front teaching all the room of attorneys, that’s a, that’s a good thing.

What I think happens in that space is that it’s an incessant cycle of you’ve got to do more. You’ve got to do more. You’ve got to do more. And you know, what makes me sad for you that [00:36:00] I knew that I knew this because you’ve kind of hinted to me your story, but not fully. You know, when I left, so I, I left and well, I don’t even know we, I don’t, I don’t share this part of that story, but we weren’t even like, I wasn’t even planning on leaving.

That space, I got added to a group message and woke up at two o’clock in the morning. And you know how, when you’re in a group message or you get added with some friends and one person says, this is getting yucky, like we can’t do this anymore. And it’s, it’s almost like somebody says out loud what you’ve been thinking for a year, but you’ve been too terrified to say it.

That’s, that’s what happened to me. I got added to a group message, somebody got brave and then every like. These four girls were like, Oh my God, I’ve been dying. So thank God somebody said it out loud. Well, that group told one wrong person that that discussion had happened. And then S H I T hit the fan. [00:37:00] Um, and then we basically got kind of pushed out because then it was the word had hit.

And all the people that I thought loved me and all the people that I thought were my friends. They bailed and I was evil and I, and I literally was probably still breastfeeding my kid. Like I still was probably just like, at the time, but that pissed me off. And so for me, I understand why I was hated in 2016, because I went with bells on.

Saying why it was a big joke. Okay, like I was loud. I was mouthy I was angry and I really was like i’m gonna shout it from the rooftops Um, so I understand getting kicked out of the club. You shouldn’t be kicked out of the club. I’m, sorry, but like I think that part of the reason why I don’t even want to do this podcast, like I would rather, I would rather have a full fledged conversation with you about a hundred other topics.

I just would, there’s other things in life that interest me way more than, than MLM exposed. Damn it. I think [00:38:00] that this needs to be said. And I really think that people need to be honored because you don’t need to be sitting in guilt any longer. You just don’t. And like. There were some really good things that you did.

You probably helped a lot of people along the way, because at the, at the end of the day, you are a kind person and you are loving and you did treat people well, but you got treated poorly. And it just, I just, I’m really sorry that that

Tara: happened to you. Yeah, so officially after that, I smashed that lovely trophy,

waited so long for that trophy. I got it. And I was like, this is stupid. Uh, yeah. So, I mean, yeah. So I lost all my friends and then, yeah, when you left, so when do you, did you

Erin: leave after me? I guess before 2016.

Tara: Okay, so you know the drill, right? Defriend [00:39:00] everybody. Well, I didn’t, I never defriended you. I see.

I didn’t do that. I didn’t play that game. Oh, she switched. She’s going to take your people. And I was just like, No, she’s not. I knew you. I knew you weren’t going to do that. So there was, you know, many people where I was just like, I am not going to defend these people. They’re good people. I never think that you were going to take my customers.

I just like I want everybody to be successful. I don’t care work a full time job, do the, you know, have, uh, rental properties, flip them just like you guys do, you know, uh, I don’t care what company you go to. Like, I, I respect you. If girls win, we all win, you know, or if women win, I guess.

Erin: You know what I think also is crazy, and I, and you know, we’ve talked about a lot of the strategy and the brilliance behind, you know, creating, well, creating specials and discounts right before a holiday, or creating [00:40:00] bonuses that they knew weren’t going to be maintained so that people would buy.

Creating the, the Theme of, you know, if you love your kids, you’ll give this everything you’ve got. There’s some brilliance behind that. And I, and I totally agree with that. I think it’s very much strategic, but I think they’ve missed the boat because. They, they could have done a better job of taking care of people like you and me.

I was out like, by, like by the time, you know, I was just a lost cause. Like by the time one person pissed me off, I was just done. Like, I, I just am. It’s kind of like. In my blood, we talked about like, just kind of who we are. It’s kind of who I am, but I, I really feel like, you know, they’ve really missed the boat on taking care of their own and when people have hard times in their life, well, how do you create loyalty?

Will you back them, you know, and you rally with them and you support them and you love on them and then you get through stuff, but [00:41:00] what they did wrong was the moment anybody showed a sign of weakness. They were just out and I, I just think that eventually like they lost people that would have would have raised the flag forever, even if it would have continued to be unhealthy.

Right.

Tara: Yeah. And I just like. Yeah. I mean, my sign of weakness, which wasn’t weakness, it was choosing my family first. Um, you know, that was it. And I, uh, I’m not even kidding you. It was the hardest time of my life. I’m absolutely, I just told you a snippet of what was going on, you know, it was challenging and, and I was up for the challenge.

I’m the mother and I’m going to read all the books. And do all the things. And so I re, so instead of doing this over here, I was researching how can I help my kid? Yeah. You know, here, here are the therapies, what can I do at home? You know, we’re looking for diff different schools. And so that’s what I was focused on.

What, when I was focused on, but the [00:42:00] people over here, after they had heard that and that I was throwing in the towel, like literally that’s the verbiage that was used. And I was just like, I don’t even think I responded to her. I was like, You don’t understand like you’re not understanding right now that I had literally have a four year old beating the shit out of me.

Every single day, scratching me and pulling my hair, punching me in the face, punching me in the stomach. I mean, it was, it was a war zone.

Erin: Is that even if it wouldn’t have been that bad? I mean, you’re, you were going through things that, that are just unimaginable. But even if you would have just had a kiddo struggling to read and you would have said, “Hey, I’ve worked really hard for a very long time.

And I’m going to take a minute because I don’t remember him as a baby and I’m just going to take a minute.” That’s what you worked so hard for.

Tara: Right. Or I thought. Yeah. What we thought was work hard in the beginning and then you get all this residual income and then you come out to find [00:43:00] there is no stopping, you know, and that was the ding ding for me is like, there will never be a time in my business, in my life where I can literally just sit back and be like, cool, you know, collect my six figure paychecks.

Like that’s not going to happen. Might happen to five people in the entire company. But it’s not gonna happen to you and I, we would always be grinding. We would always be, you know, I’m sure your kids probably play probably play sports. So you Or would have probably still been on your phone. They have a good hit and you’re like, Oh, Oh,

Erin: I coach Reina in volleyball, or I help coach Reina in volleyball.

And so it’s two nights a week of practice one night a week of games. And I just cannot even imagine. I didn’t have any evenings. I didn’t have any evenings available. I could have never been away for two [00:44:00] hours or if I was, I would have had to like strategically arrange it so that I could then spend the next three hours doing host to post and try, you know, I just, I would have never even been able to partake in half the stuff that I’m partaking in.

And if I, if I did, I would have had to wear a shirt that said. What did it say with glitter on it that said, have you tried that crazy thing? I mean, that’s what I would have had to do. Do you know what I mean? And I would have had to have my card on my lime green purse and I would have had the shoes and I would have had the bracelet and I would have had something that said, ask me about my business.

I mean, that’s what. Everything I think that what they convince people to what they convince people to think they’re doing is that they think they’re working their business around their life and really they’re working their life around their business and I just that’s where I feel. The, for me, that’s where I feel the most PTSD and that’s where I feel the guilt because I still was [00:45:00] promising option one, but I was living option two.

And I, and I know you feel that way too. How have you healed? Like how do you feel today? I know you got some PTSD, but you’ve, you’ve had a third baby. You’re a good mom. You read the books. You, you’ve, yeah, made it through it. You’re very present. What does your life look like today?

Tara: Um, so right now the boys go to two different schools.

Uh, we have school choice here. So it’s based kind of on their needs. Harlow is just turned four. She’s at home with me. Uh, she’s diapered. Um, you know, just a little delayed. It’s very common, uh, in the autism ADHD world. Um, so my focus is all I do is kids. Yeah. I volunteer at the book fairs, which is where I was this morning.

Yeah. I volunteer, you know, I’m always in the classroom. I’m always doing this. And if I would have continued on that path, I would not have been able to do anything. I wouldn’t be present for the Valentine’s day parties. I wouldn’t be present for the [00:46:00] book fair. I, you know, I wouldn’t. I probably would have hired someone by now to take my kids to school and back.

I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. So people do that. Like that’s okay. But like, so I have nothing against that because I’m sure people do that and that’s fine. But I like to, I like to do that. I mean, it’s a lot of driving. It takes me an hour and a half to drop my boys off in the morning and an hour and a half to pick them up.

Because we live in a large city, uh, so I enjoy that even though they just play their iPads the same with headphones. I’m like, okay, well, I’m like, Max, Max,

turn off your headphones. Brandon goes like totally apeshit crazy. He’s like, take them off because they never hear anything. Uh, but just, you know, being around and be able to support them and, you know, help them with the homework, you know, and. Uh, Max goes to an advanced school, so they’re teaching a grade or two ahead.

So we have lots of homework. [00:47:00] Uh, he loves it there. Um, you know, he’s thriving. He has great grades. But if I were to continue where I was, that would not be the case. Because I would not be able to sit down with him and explain. You know, this is how we do on math word problems or whatever, you know, like I, I wouldn’t be able to do that.

And, uh, I think it would have, if I would have continued, it would cause major damage, uh, lots of issues with my children. I think, you know, as an absent mother, uh, lots of challenges with my husband, lots, lots of them. And that, you know, look around, man, do you notice half of the people are divorced? Why do you think half of the people are divorced?

Erin: Yeah. How do you think? Yeah. Right? Well, because instead of working their business around their life, they live their life around their business in every single shape or form. And I think that social media makes it worse. [00:48:00] I think that there are so many, I mean, that’s a topic in and of itself that we could talk about with every leader that’s ever done MLM in the whole wide world probably is that doing a business like that and being put on a pedestal, especially if you’ve made it to a certain space, especially if you’re sitting in the seats, especially if you’re, you know, you’ve gotten the trophy or whatever you are put into a category.

And then because of social media and because of the visibility, there’s an expectation for everybody to be. A certain type of way and to be hunky dory, but behind the scenes, it’s misery and I’ve been there and we’ve, you know, Aaron and I, Aaron sitting over here, we, we have fought through that majorly, even over the last 10 years.

And I think we would have fought. I think we would have had that. Listen, he was a police officer and. Um, I was in corporate America and a very aggressive career. And so let’s take MLM out of it. We still would have had that. We still would have battled a career that took precedence and a career that would have literally [00:49:00] dang near killed me.

Um, we still would have done that, but there’s a level of visibility that happens in MLM. And I also think, okay, tell me this, you know, you see the couples that have. Gotten divorced and, and, or still are in very abusive marriages and very unhealthy marriages, but they’re, they’re hanging in there because they feel like they have to, because that’s the image because that’s the cover of their, of their book, that’s the, that’s the sale, right?

Like when you sell the lifestyle, when your entire world is paid for by hype and an image. If your sale is imaged, then what happens when the image crumbles and what hap happens when the family falls apart and,

we were talking about marriages. Um, if you were to, let’s say you, let’s say you, not that you would ever do it again, but let’s say that if you could go back in time and change anything, [00:50:00] what would it be not do it?

You wouldn’t, you would just completely have deleted the experience.

Tara: It wasn’t worth it. It just wasn’t. It just wasn’t worth it. It was, it was so stressful, you know, getting all the gift cards, filling the boxes, having the huge charts, you know, putting all the numbers in. It’s like, you know, then you got to try to convince someone who, you know, who doesn’t have money to do it.

Right. Because everybody’s counting on me to do this big promotion thing so that they can. And so the people up, so then whoever’s up here is like, you need to get your shit together. With your team passed on to me. And then I need to do it and that, that was probably one of the most difficult things for me was to try to encourage people to do that.

And I feel, I mean, I, that, that’s a hard part for me.

Erin: That’s a hard part. Don’t keep in touch with any of your old team.

Tara: [00:51:00] Do they still do it? As soon as I left, I was blocked and all the things I’m like, cool. Like I’m, I, I only resigned and stuff. Just because I wanted to take care of my kids, that was it. And they were high needs at that point. And so, you know, I wasn’t going anywhere. I never even thought about going to another company.

They blocked me and do all the things. I was like, cool. I don’t need to see your shit anyway. So whatever

Erin: makes me, you know, one thing I’ve learned over. You know, a gazillion hours of like self therapy, but, and books and all the things, it’s just that I, I think every traumatic experience that I’ve been through from little girl on, from, from stuff that should have never happened to marriage issues, to business issues, to, you know, bad bosses, you know, all the things I swear that although I wouldn’t want to experience them again, and although I, it’s I don’t have any desire [00:52:00] to relive it.

And I it’s, you know, maybe if I could rewrite history, I would, but I will say that every single one of them have been some sort of catalyst to where I am today and, or have made me appreciate where I am today and what I have and, or have served me in some way, shape or form to help someone else. So do you feel like, and this isn’t, this is just maybe I’m trying to be positive Polly here, but.

As a mom today, going through what you’ve been through, do you think that experience even though it’s painful and even though it still causes you trauma, I can see it in your face. Honestly, do you think that it, it is a reminder of just those precious years? I mean, do you think that it makes you, um, take for granted less?

Yes. Is that am I making sense?

Tara: Yeah. So that’s why I mean, if you look at my Facebook, my Instagram, it’s all, we’re always at somewhere. We’re always [00:53:00] at a jump park. We’re always on a train park for a splash pad. Like there’s very little downtime here. I mean, trust me, my boys play screen time 12 hours a day, but you know, you, you take it that, you know, like it’s kind of survival mode over here.

So, uh, but yeah, I mean, you know, I’ve Harlow at home. Uh, full time. She does have respite like here and there. Um, so I can get a break, but otherwise, yeah, we’re always somewhere all, all over the place driving, uh, just to go to other things. And, um, so yeah, I don’t really know where I was going with this, but I had a great thought.

Erin: Do you remember the question? I do this all the time. I’m like, Hey, what was the question again? The question was just, do you feel like you live life fuller because of that experience? Like, do you feel like yes, I do too. So I’m still working very hard and we’re doing a bunch of different things, but I will tell you that that experience, it still resonates with me so deeply that I’m very aware of the breakfast [00:54:00] moments and of the drive to school and of the time.

And I’m very aware of being too much in my phone and or being too much here or there. And I don’t, I don’t know if I wouldn’t have drowned in that. I think I, I don’t think I would be as aware and I don’t think that I would be as grateful for the time that I have now and I, and I’m happy to spend my life making up for that.

Tara: Yes, no, and I totally agree because, you know, even though I mean it’s not like a rainbow every day. You know, it just has a mom. Like, I don’t care if you have special needs kids, typical kids, like it’s not always a rainbow. They talk back, they talk shit, and you’re just like, you know, because mine’s 10 and he’s on this like whole attitude thing.

Mom, you’re wrong. I’m like,

Step back, step back. You’re going to see mommy get mad. Uh, but you know, I think I, yeah, I just appreciate it a lot. And, you know, I, like I said, I don’t remember. [00:55:00] I do not remember my children for until Jackson was, let’s see, you would have been four or five. Cause that’s all I was doing working on holidays.

And Brandon would get so irritated, which. Rightfully so, right? Rightfully so. Like, you shouldn’t be sitting down trying to sell all these things that are on sale on all holidays. Yeah. Where you’re missing out on, you know, the, the Santa presents and the, this and the next. I’m always, my brain is like, are you looking, I’m like, yes, playing like the whole fake thing.

And, uh, I’ve really been more conscious about like I, on my apps, I put restrictions of time. So that way you can tell me like, Hey, you’ve been on Facebook for 30 minutes today. Shut her, shut her down. Oh, that’s smart. I love that. Just because it gives you don’t know how that [00:56:00] time adds up. You know what I mean?

So you can go to like your settings and it will be like, I can’t remember what it says. It’s pretty clear though. And then you can put that on there. Like, you know, if you wanted to, you know, if you’re on it a lot, decrease it, you know, to like two hours and one hour than 30 minutes. And I think that you will find that you will be more productive just in your business in that small amount of time.

Cause you know, I don’t have a lot of time to scroll. I got 30 minutes to get all my content out to do, you know, your zooms with your team to do to do all those things and I really, uh, I haven’t told you this, but I really respect how you run your business. Now, I really do. And I really respect. I’m not going to say names but a lot of people that came from where I came from.

I respect how that’s ran, and I’m wildly so happy that you guys have. You know that you’re successful. I am like I have no. I don’t do the whole jealous thing like girls when we [00:57:00] win, you know what I mean? You do you, uh, you know, I do a now I do a, uh, special needs advocacy. So I have my own website.

And what I do is I chart I work with typically low income families. Okay. And I charge him nothing because I do have that background in, in law and, and in reading law and stuff like that. So that, that was my thing. Nope. Does it make me a lot of money? No. Do I care? No. Cause it’s my purpose. You know, that’s if I can have three special needs kids and I can get all the services and all the things they can and I can read bylaws, which many people, especially those on the low income scale, like they might not have the education or they may be bilingual.

And so they don’t understand it. So then you have all these children suffering. So then that’s when I can help you give you directions, you know, and then like, I think our advocate charges like 1, 500 with Jackson, [00:58:00] which it was okay for us at the time, you know, but most people know. So I’ll charge them literally like 150 payment plan.

Erin: Oh, that’s amazing. What’s your, all I want to do is help people. That’s all. What’s your website. How would people get ahold of you?

Tara: It’s Jacksonsadvocacy.Com. I love it. I have a full on website and uh, Yeah, I mean, I’ve gotten, you’d be surprised at how many services and preschool I’ve got for the children.

It’s quite amazing. Uh, you know, but if you’re able to interpret law, then that, that definitely helps, but not most people can. So that’s why I just like to come in and help. That’s what I do. That’s my intention. And

probably not that’s

Erin: all that matters. I’m proud of you. And. You know, you, you said you’re proud of me. Well, maybe we’re, maybe we are meant to go make up for those years. And [00:59:00] maybe there, I mean, maybe that’s the reason, right? Maybe it was a period of time that will forever be a little bit painful, but it. It was a catalyst for us to do what we were meant to do.