Episode 8: Narcissism & Promoter Building

Erin: [00:00:00] Hey, I’m excited to have you back for another episode of the MLM exposed podcast. Don’t let the title freak you out. We’re not anti MLM and these are not bash sessions. We are however, pro truth and pro dialogue and you deserve to hear it all. The good, the bad, and the ugly. If you’re new to our community, we drop a new podcast each week.

Everyone here has a story to tell. Some may horrify you, some you’ll relate to, but no matter what, the best lessons learned are through the experiences of others. And we think those stories are worth sharing. If this episode helps you, please subscribe so you don’t miss a thing, and even better, leave a review.

Unless it’s bad, then keep your opinions to yourself. J. K.! We love the truth here. Thank you again for being with us. At MLM Exposed, we believe firmly that when you know better, you do better. And we think this conversation is more relevant than ever. All my wolves begin to howl, wake me up, the time is now.[00:01:00]

Can you hear the drumming? There’s a revolution coming!

Today I am interviewing my friend Lisa Fuller. Of all things, Lisa was a total stranger to me. Just a little over a year ago, we knew of each other, um, but didn’t know each other, got introduced by a friend and, um, I’m super excited to hear her story.

I’ve heard bits and pieces of it. So it’s funny because the interviews that I’ve done so far, I knew those stories. Maybe I didn’t know the detail, um, but I knew them enough to kind of guide the conversation . This one is a little bit of a surprise, so I’m very excited to hear. Way back in the day, um, how this began for you, your experience in MLM.

Um, what I love about Lisa is that Lisa knows her stuff too. So I think that this will be very interesting digging into, you know, maybe compensation pieces, digging into some of the personal stuff. She’s been there, done that. She’s seen it. So [00:02:00] anyways, give me your scoop. So, so this is MLM exposed. As you know, we don’t, we don’t trash talk.

I want, I want this to be a conversation that educates and that I, what I think about it is that if I would have found a podcast like this. 2011, would I have made a different decision? Maybe not, but I at least would’ve known what I was getting into and I would’ve least. Known the red flags to look for, um, would have put a, should I wish this was here back then?

And so here we are talking about it now. So how did you get introduced to the

Lisa: MLM space? So, well, and first of all, you’re right. I mean, there’s just nothing out there at that time that was educational or educated you really on it. And the only thing I had ever heard about MLM was that’s a scam. You know, it’s not a real business.

They’re not legal, you know, all of the things. So, um, but actual education on how to pick a company, where to [00:03:00] go, what’s good, what’s bad. We didn’t have access to that kind of stuff. Um, I still, I still

Erin: think today it’s either, it’s either anti MLMers. So it’s anti MLM. It’s pro MLM, how to do your business.

I’m a coach. I’m, I’m a coach, but not calling myself a coach. And then, then there’s just like random people. I feel like we have a unique niche having been a part of it. I’m no longer a part of it. You’re no longer a part of it. But there’s perspective that I wish was more openly talked about.

Lisa: So, Oh, 100%. I was in the MLM space for 14 years.

So with two different companies, um, I started in, uh, I was waiting tables and bartending at that time. And, um, one of the girls I worked with started talking about, uh, a crazy wrap you put on your body. And at first I ignored it. I thought it sounded crazy, but. The more [00:04:00] people at work that started getting interested in it, then I started getting curious too, right?

That’s how it works, you know? So after everybody else was trying it, I’m like, okay, I gotta try this thing. And, um, I, I felt like I saw some results with it. And, uh, she was like, I know you need the extra cash. You should do this as a business. And I was excited about it. I mean, she, cause she was throwing numbers at me left and right.

And I was like, Holy cow. If I could make 500 extra dollars a month, that would save my life. Like that alone would have been the thing that goes wrong every month. You know, like, Oh, the tire’s flat or I need an oil change. Like it was the thing every month when you have, um, at that time I had a blended family of five kids.

So every month, you know, every other month there was a birthday, like there was always something that came up that would always set me back and then I’d be borrowing money from my mother. So that extra 500 was all I wanted, but she was talking crazy money. And, you know, I was thinking that that would never [00:05:00] be me.

I could never do that. But hey, 500, that would, that’s what I want. So I jumped into it and I was in for about a week before I almost quit. I literally called her and said, can I send this kit back? Um, I don’t think this is for me. And she’s like, why you were so excited? What happened? And I was like, well. My mom and my sister told me this is a scam, and I, if I can’t get them to support me, I’m definitely not gonna be able to get anybody else to support me, like, they’re my biggest supporters in life, so, if they’re not down with this, then probably this ain’t the road to go, and

I was like, this just isn’t for me. And, um, she was like, look, that’s cool. I’m not going to pressure you to do this. She was like, but like one of the owners of the company is coming to Toledo at this VFW hall. Um, it’s a little meeting where you at least go to that it’s next week. And if you don’t want to do it after that, I will leave you alone.

And I was like, all right, I’ll go to this thing. What do I [00:06:00] have to lose? Um, so I went to this thing, got in a room, there was probably 25 to 30 other people there. And, um, three of the people that talked were making over like 20 grand a month and 10 grand a month and all these crazy numbers, and I was like, I, if they’re doing this, so could I, they were nobody special there.

There’s stories. I got to touch them, you know, be around them, sit with them. They were not anybody special. They were just normal people like me. And I thought if they’re doing this, why can’t I. And I remember leaving that day being like, I’m going to go make a bazillion dollars, like I’m going to do this thing.

You know, I will prove to my mom and my sister that they are wrong. And I’m going to go do this thing. And, um, really quickly, I made enough money within five to six months. I made enough money to quit my job. And within the first year, I was making more money than I had ever seen in my dang life. Like I could not believe where I had [00:07:00] gotten to.

And I kind of looked at it like. I’m going to ride this train as long as it lasts. Like this is not going to be lasting. There’s no way like this is a fluke. This is, I, you know, this could be gone tomorrow and that’s kind of how I treated it. And, um, about four years in, I realized, I think this is my career.

Like maybe this could last. Forever. And I remember being with that company being I’m a lifer. I’ll never leave. I’ll be here till I’m 92 walking around with an oxygen machine. Like I’m never leaving this joint. And, um, about four and a half, five years in, I started seeing some huge red flags. And because I had never been in another company before, I didn’t have anything to compare it to.

I didn’t know, do other companies work this way? Is this just a normal thing? But what I started seeing was just things weren’t growing. Like [00:08:00] when I started in those first three to four years, it was so easy to help somebody come in and help them make an extra 500 bucks a month versus now I couldn’t even help somebody sign a customer.

So it was harder and harder and harder and not just for me, for my team. And it was at a place where. I was kind of the only one making a lot of money. No one had gotten to my rank, you know, you’re I’m five years into a company and no one has gotten there with me. And that felt super defeating too. And I’m thinking there’s got to be a better way.

Um, and the company just started making changes out of nowhere. And, you know, the product wasn’t working the same and the comp plan, they would announce these crazy, you know, 10, 000, 50, 000, a hundred thousand dollar bonuses. Once a year, every year at conference. And what happened was it was super defeating.

It became this bonus culture where people would earn these [00:09:00] bonuses, but then not be able to maintain them. And then because they couldn’t maintain them, they would feel defeated and then they wouldn’t want to work. And it was just this endless cycle. And, uh, a half years in, well, about six years in, I started looking at other opportunities and I, you know,

Erin: I want to stop you for a second.

Cause I have a couple of questions. Before we move on to company number two, because by the time you got to company number two, you had some different experiences. One of the things you said at the very beginning that I want to dig into is you said that they got you to an event. They got you in front of real people that could touch taste and feel.

And it was all about the money they were making, making big numbers, big 5, 000 a month, 10, 000 a month. And so, so this is what happened to me too. The

Lisa: whole

Erin: reason, and this is just a thought that I have and I want you to dig into it with me, but the whole reason I started in that realm was because somebody told me she was making 6, 000 a month.

I always use air quotes because we, [00:10:00] we had to use company averages. Nobody was ever making the average that they said. I thought I could do, I looked at her and I said, if she can do it, I could do it. I think that one of the things that bothers me that needs to be done differently is that in that space.

That’s the story that’s told over and over and over again. It’s never about product. You mentioned product that you, it might have worked, but it’s never about product. It’s never about the company. It’s never about the leadership. It’s never about the longevity. It’s not about, you know, the books. It’s not about, um, None of that.

You know what their 10 and 20 year plan is the whole story that is constantly sold is if she can do it, you can do it, which then gets us on. I

Lisa: mean, do you feel that

Erin: way? Like it was just, we just shoved the best success stories they could possibly find. They shoved them on a stage over and over and over again to get everybody else some version of hope and kept them on a hamster wheel.

Did you feel that way?

Lisa: [00:11:00] Maybe not knowing it, but no, 100% now looking back for sure. And the crazy thing is, is, you know, when you look at the space and you look at how many people actually come in and make money, it’s like, if people really knew, right. They really knew what was going on behind the scenes.

But at the end of the day, though, I do want to say it was life changing and it was life changing for other people that I knew too. Um, and I’ve always said that, you know, how many people in the world are CEOs of companies? 1%. So when you say only 1% of people make money in the space of MLM, I’m like, well, that’s everything in life.

Only 1% of people in America make over a hundred grand a year. Like, so with that said, yeah, with that said though. Nothing was about product. You, the only way to make money in MLM is to [00:12:00] constantly sign new promoters, people that are going to build teams under you, you were never going to make real money just by signing some customers.

So, you know, your goal constantly was. I mean, gosh, I don’t think in that company, I signed customers ever, you know what I mean? And either of the companies I was with, because I just was so focused and driven on, I’ve got to get people in the system in order for me to get here and they have to be promoters and they have to build a business.

And I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s not, um, I mean, I don’t know many MLMs where it’s about the product. Yeah, don’t get me wrong. Not that there aren’t good products out there, right? There are, but that is not the motivation behind most people’s spiel, so to speak. And I just think it

Erin: would feel less scummy. So I agree.

1%. Like it’s [00:13:00] 1% of the people are going to have success. If you put a hundred people in a room to go be real estate agents, you’d have the

Lisa: same.

Erin: Statistic. If you put 100 people in the room to go sell insurance, you’d have the same statistic. But the difference is, is that the buy in of real estate and of insurance is that they have to go get their license, they have to go through a huge process, and it is…

It’s like they fully know, maybe not, maybe it’s sold, maybe real estate is some fancy schmancy easy thing. I’ve not, I have people try to try to recruit me to real estate all the time, but, um, but I just feel like the problem is that the story is constantly the hero story. If she can do it, you can do it.

No, you can’t, even though, you know, there’s no education, there’s no substance. So I don’t know. I got stuck in the same thing and, and think about you and I, and I think that happens with a lot of leaders too, is that once you’ve made the income, you do believe it because I did do it. Like I did make it so [00:14:00] dang it.

If I can, you can. But then five years later, you’re like, Oh, maybe not. You know, like, um, another question I had about the beginning of your experience that you mentioned before we got on recording was that part of the reason that you came into your first company was finances, but it was part of a relationship.

And I want you to explain that. Cause I want to dig into that.

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, I think there’s a lot of women out there that have probably been in a situation. Where the only reason they are staying with their significant other is financial, right? You can’t take care of yourself and I was in a 15 year relationship with a narcissist who We had a blended family of five kids.

Um, we had one together. We each had two and um, it was You know him cheating and leaving and then coming back and it was so not stable and [00:15:00] every time He would, you know, say get out or put my stuff on the lawn or whatever crazy thing he did that month. I was sitting there like, what do I do? I have, I can’t take care of myself.

And that was one of the hugest motivators for me. You know, when they say have a why, you know, right. I had a why. And that’s what really drove me to get out there and do the hard stuff that it takes to build any kind of business. It was that because I wanted to be in a place financially to where when he kicked me out, I could take care of myself.

Or when, if I wanted to leave, which there were several times I wanted to, because it got so bad. But I would always think, how will I make it right? And I think there’s a lot of women out there like that. And, you know, we were talking before this, how narcissism[00:16:00]

runs rampant in, in network marketing, for sure. It’s not, it’s not just men and it’s not just your boyfriend or husband that can be a narcissist. Listen, you can have friends that are narcissists. You can have bosses, coworkers, and you do deal with a lot of. Even the company itself, brainwashing that happens with both of the companies that I was with, there’s a lot of brainwashing, like with the first company I was with you, if you left, you didn’t believe in God.

You know, they prayed you out. And, you know, if you didn’t live up to certain expectations and do this or that or the other, it was, it, it was gaslighting, you know what I mean? They would gaslight you and then you wouldn’t get treated as well. And then you, you wouldn’t, you can’t hold the microphone on stage or sit on the white couch.

Um, you know, just crazy stuff that. [00:17:00] It’s sad to me that when I look back on both of those opportunities, when my team would go to big conferences and meetings and trainings, they weren’t sitting in the, in the audience going, God, I want to change this person’s life. And I want to make an impact here. They were thinking, I just want to sit on that white couch.

If only I could hold that microphone because that’s a culture that was created. You were with the first company I was with. So, you know, the culture in MLM is very much like being a celebrity. Like I would go to conferences and people would cry meeting me and it was uncomfortable, right? You know, you’re just a normal human being.

You are no different, but they literally made people so much, you know, you had your name tag with their badges and, you know, you could go on stage and it was just very, um, [00:18:00] I don’t know, I, the culture of MLM. That if I could change it, I wouldn’t a heartbeat because it really does defeat people at the end of the day, right?

Because we already know that 99% of people are never going to get up on that stage. They’re never going to in that space. They’re just not. So when you create that kind of culture, they feel not good enough. They feel not worthy. They end up quitting because they feel like I, you know, it’s so funny to me how many people say, I just want an extra 500 a month.

And then they make an extra 500 and now. That would change my life. Now it’s I want a thousand and if I can’t get to a thousand, I’m just going to quit. Like, what happened to, you know, what happened to that beginning dream you had? And that’s all you wanted. But because that culture is go get the house, go buy the car.

I literally made millions of, I can’t say that, but I made a lot of [00:19:00] money. And what I will tell you is that I had nothing to show for it. Because I was constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses. I, you know, I constantly wanted to be able to post about the things. Yeah, because I wanted because that we were taught that if you showed the things that’s what’s going to attract people to you and now looking back, I realized how many people I really pushed away because they either think it’s fake, phony, or they think it’s bragging or believe you me, it does not.

Me sharing that I could put food in my fridge is going to go so much further than look at my brand new Escalade.

Erin: Well, and I, I’m, I’m appreciate you getting vulnerable there because I think that, you know, I know you well enough to know that you’ve been through some really rough stuff. And I know you well enough to know that those tumultuous, pretty abusive relationships have affected you.

And can you imagine how many other people have that similar background? So [00:20:00] I, this is my belief. That that kind of vulnerable person is actually really attracted to this Because that culture does feed you and it does make you feel valuable and it does make you feel worthy It does make you feel like you’re going to shoot for something But you’re never

Lisa: quite there.

So the white

Erin: couch, Lisa mentioned a white couch story. We had this like, famous person in that company that did, was like, she did interviews and they did like these little panels on the white couch. And that became a thing. So if you weren’t on the white couch or if you weren’t on the stage, you weren’t a part of the Cool Kids Club.

And if you have a vulnerable person that would do anything to win, or anything to prove themselves, or anything to be loved, They will literally break their kids piggy bank to make it happen. So I witnessed, because I was never a cool kid and I never made enough. I never made enough to like, be the tippity top, but I was almost there and I watched it and I was kind of like, [00:21:00] anti, but I wanted to be in the ropes.

Lisa: You know what I mean? I want to be David. Were you there? Do you remember? And I don’t know if you, I was there, literally there was a white party, I think. It’s so embarrassing. In the middle of, I mean, picture a gymnasium and in the middle of it, a boxing ring. And putting everybody that was special made a lot of money inside that boxing ring.

And then around you, like you were caged animal in a zoo, people were walking and, and, and, and talking and drinking, they were outside of that area. And I just remember thinking, this is just nuts. Like, I don’t even want to be back there. I remember thinking, why don’t I want to be in there with a bunch of people that aren’t on my team that I do not give to whatever about, like, I didn’t even go in there because I’m like, I want to be out here with my people.

And it’s just [00:22:00] so many things that I look back on and that now that I realize. It was hype and it was not motivating to other people. And in the end, it just ended up being, uh, something I’m kind of embarrassed and ashamed of looking back.

Erin: How many people do you think are the same as you that would say out loud, if they were ever honest, most of them are not honest, but would say, I made a ton of money in network marketing or MLM and I have nothing to show for it.

Lisa: Oh my God. I know so many people that. Left that company when I did that. We’re in the same boat that I was. And I mean, I was my, I think I would like one time I was number 16 in the company, like out of thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of promoters. So obviously I’m making, [00:23:00] I made the millionaires club and know how much money I made there.

And to know that I left with my last check. It’s embarrassing. It’s embarrassing. It’s so

Erin: embarrassing. Well, here’s, here’s my perspective on it too, is that, you know, I think they do that for a reason. I think the lack of financial education is on purpose. Somebody can prove me wrong. I think that the, the less they educate us, so you have a bunch of vulnerable people who are people pleasers, who have daddy issues, who have old trauma, who, I mean, I know a mama that.

She had, she made poor financial decisions before coming to our company. That’s why she was coming. She never got taught any better. She made poor financial decisions after she came and so her debt to income ratio stayed the same. It just was bigger. It was just more debt and more income. And I think that they do that on purpose and they

Lisa: keep [00:24:00] making you post the shiny

Erin: object.

They want you to get the Escalade. They want you to get the, the fancy stuff because then you are stuck. Because then, you will push that same agenda onto your people, even when the company is tanking, even when the bonuses aren’t enough, even when they’ve made four terrible decisions, even when they’re treating people like crap, you’ll stay a slave, because you, you’re, the master…

You know what

Lisa: they’re doing. They’re very calculated, and, I mean, So there’s this one name that pretty much everybody has probably heard of him in in the MLM space, and this person literally starts up companies. Yeah, days there you know I’m talking about stays there maybe a year or two goes to the next one goes to the next one goes to the next one, his name is attached to at least 20 that I know of, and every single one operates the same even.

Yeah. Where [00:25:00] the products are manufactured. Many of these companies, the products are manufactured in the same exact manufacturing plant. Like, it’s just insane to me that, but the way the company is run. So, like I said, with the first company, I had nothing to compare it to, but I didn’t know enough about what I did not want.

And so I, you know, did my due diligence and I looked at things and.

I thought I had found something that was different. Yes. I knew that, you know, I could cut out half the companies immediately because I knew I didn’t want a binary comp plan. I think horrible. That is what it is. But we should

Erin: do a podcast on binary comp plans. Explain it. Yeah. Because I got

Lisa: what they’re getting into in a binary.

But. They’re so hard to build, unless you’re a crazy enroller, [00:26:00] which most people are not. Um, but I knew I didn’t want that. So I could cut out, you know, half the companies immediately. I thought I had found one that seemed different and

it’s it was different for the first couple of years. It was different. And then slowly, um, when I got into that company, I actually was the fastest person to ever hit the top of the comp plan. I still hold the record. I thought this was different because I actually had other people getting to the top of the comp plan with me this time.

And I thought, Oh my God. You know, I found it. This is amazing. And then here I go. I mean, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. And by year five, I felt like I was right back where I was with my first company. All of the same things were happening.

Um, all the same red flags going up. And [00:27:00] it was a scary situation because I’m like, I am going to be 50 years old at the end of this year. And there is no freaking way I can continue. I started getting scared about my future about life because I, at that point had made enough money to be a, I was going to be a network marketer forever.

This was my job. This was my profession. I am good at it. I built a huge network. The problem was though, is that

if this is going to keep happening every six years in a company and I, every six years, I have to go to a new one. Where’s the stability in that? There is no beach money, whatever they tell you, like there just isn’t. And I knew it wasn’t just me because I’m in Facebook groups with eight figure earners and network marketing in, in all different businesses.

And I’m constantly seeing the [00:28:00] rotation, you know, I’m seeing the hamster wheel happen of build up your network, take your team, go to the next company, build up your network again, take your team, go to the next company. And all it is, is it, is it wouldn’t matter what the product was or, you know, if it worked or it was like, what’s the hypest thing going on right now.

What’s the, the, uh, patented new technology product that no one else in the world has and coming from two companies that had. Products that were patented technology. No one else in the world has it.

And then same thing with my last company, like all of a sudden, guess what? This isn’t, this isn’t unique or that always runs out. But that same thing kept happening again, the same bonus culture, um, in fact, the second [00:29:00] company I was with, they gave you a, a car, not gave you, we all know that doesn’t work like that.

Um, you could go purchase a vehicle, but it had to be a luxury vehicle. And we all know Escalades, BMWs, those are not going to be cheap, but they let you do that at the second rank in the company. Oh my gosh. The second rank was very achievable. So what ended up happening was I had hundreds of people on my team get to that second rank and go get the vehicle.

And then they were stuck with these car payments when they couldn’t hold the rank. I did not know

Erin: this. I did not know that it was at the second rank.

Lisa: Yes. Second rank. And it was so defeating and he, they didn’t listen to me. I’m like, no, no, no, no. You need to wait till you get up here. You want to be solid.

Don’t do it. But the pressure from the company behind [00:30:00] the scenes was the same. Yeah. Well, actually, the company was get the car so that you can go post it on social media so that everybody is going to see it and then they’re going to want to join you. So all these people felt this pressure to go get this vehicle that they were stuck with paying a payment and The seeing people struggle like that and ruin their credit because the vehicle was repossessed or, or you have to go get two and three other jobs to now pay for the vehicle that they did not even need.

It’s just sad. It’s sad looking back thinking, but all that sounds so good on paper. Right. When they’re pushing the agenda, even of that particular company. And one of the first things I would tell people is you can get a car at the second rank. Little did I know I was setting them up for huge failure and huge, you know, regret and, uh, in a, in a commitment that they were never going to be able to keep.

Like. [00:31:00] It’s sad now looking back, but that’s what you talk about. And then if there’s a bonus announced, oh my God, you can come in right now and you can get a 10, 000 bonus or a 50, 000 bonus. And again, the same thing happens. And what would happen in both of the companies I was with was people bought them.

So the people, the newer people, they couldn’t afford to do that, but the people that had been in the people making the good money, they can afford to buy those bonuses and then they would get caught on the hamster wheel of buying the bonus every month so that they didn’t have the disappointment and the shame of losing it.

And you know, they could just never catch up. So they’re spending money to make money and all that. And It was just the same thing. I’m like, you’ve got to be kidding me. I can’t keep doing this because if I keep picking the same kind of company doing the, and I thought [00:32:00] I’m stuck though, right? I’m going to be 50.

I’m not going back to waiting tables. This is all I know. I have to go find another company. So I’m going to have to go do this again, because I didn’t think there was anything out there that existed that didn’t operate like that.

Erin: Well, thank God there is, and we can’t talk about it, but it’s so interesting.

So two things that you said is that the hype, I think we could literally, we could teach people how to do MLM and how not to do MLM, um, and the only word we would have to use is hype. That’s it. I was like trolling social media today and looking at some of the owners of companies and they’re so

Lisa: hypey

Erin: and it’s, and it’s, there’s a new product coming or it’s a, it’s a launch of a new label probably, and they won’t tell anybody what it is and they hype it and then there’s going to be a this and there’s going to be a that and the whole goal.

Is to get all the distributors all the sales people so excited that they go and buy [00:33:00] it or that they go and reach for the bonus or whatever it’s all built on a sales force and if you can imagine being the guy that invests in 30 companies he doesn’t care who buys the product he doesn’t care who wins he doesn’t care who loses he makes a whole bunch of money off of taking advantage of a whole bunch of people and then it’s on and you move on and you move on and that’s the concept of it.

Jumping from one to the next, to the next, and the problem is that more people get lost every single time, you know, more people fall for it. The other thing, and, and maybe you’re not comfortable sharing this, if you’re not, we can edit it out, but one of the things I do know about you is that partly why you went to company number two was again because of a relationship, because the person that you were in a relationship with had already signed up.

Will you tell that story? I think that it’s the . Oh my

Lisa: God, it’s so embarrassing. Like it’s embarrassing. Looking back on this man dictated my life for so long, but if you’ve been with a narcissist, you know, they dictate [00:34:00] everything. So I, um, so the first business I was in, I built myself to, you know, a five figure monthly income pretty quickly, and then I put him in and built his business.

Because you can do that, right? You can do that in MLM. You can’t do that in any other business on the planet. But you can actually do weird stuff like… Put your spouse in and then never work a day in their life and then collect two paychecks. That’s a whole nother Zoom. We could do a whole nother Zoom just on people collecting two, three, four paychecks in their house.

But anyways, um, well, long story short, he signed, he wanted to sign first in the second company. He signed first in that second company. I signed under him because I felt obligated to because I, I don’t know why, but it is what it is now.

I mean, he’s [00:35:00] still in that company sitting, collecting a paycheck. He’s never enrolled a real person. He’s never, um, he, he hasn’t worked the business. In any capacity, at least before he would show up at events. But when I say he hasn’t done anything but collected the paycheck, I built him for years now.

Yeah. So it’s frustrating because

that’s another part that frustrates me is you watch leaders. Go into these business leaders. I use that very loosely because we know that everybody slaps the name leader. If, if you’re any rank that makes money, you’re considered a leader, which is BS. To me, you can be a leader and not make a dime, right?

I’ve had people that were more of leaders making 500 bucks a month. Then people making 5 billion a month and they didn’t show up and do anything. And it, it’s sad to me that the [00:36:00] industry is full of people. I mean, I would say that’s probably the biggest complaint that I had people coming to me, um, over the last 14 years when I was in that industry, complaining that they got no help and support from their upline.

Signed them and then they disappeared. Nobody trained them. Nobody supported them. Nobody, you know, encouraged them. Um, but how many people in that industry sit back and do absolutely freaking nothing and they don’t have to? And I always thought, and then there’s people like me picking up the slack for all the people that don’t show up, you know, because I can’t imagine not showing up for people that trusted to sign up with me and trusted to build a business with me.

I

Erin: think that’s why I hung in there so long too. And it’s probably why you and I get along very well is that I think the reason that I stayed as long as I did. And although [00:37:00] there were things that made me feel icky and ashamed, and although I knew, like, looking back, like, I just, even, you know, you talked about that, that white party, like, that, I, I, I didn’t, we didn’t sit in there for long, I was, like, really pregnant, so we lasted, like, 12 seconds.

But I remember thinking, like, I don’t want to be in here. I’m very embarrassed. My mom was at convention, my best friends were at convention, and they couldn’t go in there. But there was a part of me that’s like, but I freaking earned this. Like, and I wanted this, and I think I want this, but I don’t. So I, I look back and there is, like, I could put a box and put labels on all the shame that I feel.

But I also hung in there, and, and I know that you’re the same, because I was a worker. Like I was in the trenches. There was not a day that went by that I wasn’t working with my team, supporting my team, figuring out, you know, there’s this thing called host to post, which ruined also many lives, the spamming

started that, but it wasn’t a spammy thing. It was. Me asking other friends [00:38:00] or customers to post about my product. And in exchange, I gave them a free wrap. Well, that turned into, here’s your free Louis Vuitton that nobody ever gave away. Um, that turned into a really spammy thing, but I was constantly digging for ways to try to help my people.

But I think that’s partly why I stayed so long because I was in it and I was, and I wanted it for them and I wanted it for myself and I was still spinning that label of. If she can do it, I can do it. If she can do it, I can do it. The car, the house, the this, the that. Like what is wrong with us? And, and I think that that goes into a narcissistic relationship.

Like you’ve been in a narcissistic relationship for 20 years, whether it be with a man or with that company or those because they’re set up like that. The owners of the companies are the worst of the worst and it just bleeds down. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it’s sad and it’s sad. I. I look back at so much of it and I’m like, Oh my gosh, but I also look back fondly.

I mean, I met some of the best people in the world, [00:39:00] you know, and that’s what really kept me. You know, I was thinking about when you were talking about kind of the cycle of how you made money, the last two years of my last business, no one knew was coming into it. Anywhere, but the checks kept coming because every day the company would put on a new special and the promoters were buying the products.

So, I mean, I had, I know people with garage full. I knew one, a girl who, and this is the part that kills me. They say that it’s against the rules. They say you can’t do it, but they let it happen and they know it’s happening. There was a girl, and many people did this, but there was one particular girl who had [00:40:00] hundreds of fake accounts.

Hundreds of fake accounts. I mean, her mom was in five times, her sister, her dog, her cat, her one year old nephew was in a couple of times, and she would get the deliveries to one of three addresses, and she bought all the bonuses she ever earned, and the company knew it. Yeah, you know, they say they audit, they say they care, but they don’t.

This person was turned in with proof and they did nothing about it. And do you want to know why? Because they don’t care. It’s patting their pockets. They do not care how the money is coming in as long as it’s coming in. So it does not matter to them if the company isn’t growing right now, right? It does not matter to them if the company is growing.

As long as the people currently in it continue to buy every new product and every new special, it will create the illusion of growth [00:41:00] to people, but it’s not sustainable. You know, I was so used to watching January, February, March, April, May. It’s great. And then June, July, August, September, October, November, December, it would be cut in half.

Everybody’s pay. Everybody lost ranks. Everybody would lose their bonuses. And we’d all be waiting for January again. January, February, March and April. Ah, it’s, we’re on a high, it’s great. And then boom, it just goes downhill. And what happens is when you’re making less year six than year one I, that doesn’t compute with me.

Like, shouldn’t you be somehow growing a little by year six? You know,

Erin: or even just business

Lisa: or it was headed was. In both the company that I was with, where it was headed was eventually it was going to fall apart. Mm-hmm. , I don’t see how it couldn’t, and,

Erin: or the house built on sand. It’s the, when you build anything that’s only on

Lisa: stories whatsoever.[00:42:00]

Only on

Erin: stories and hype and facades, then eventually the facades, they cave, they break. Um,

Lisa: well, if people, like you just said, facade, if people were honest, Listen, there are great parts about the industry. It’s an industry that changed my life. Unfortunately though, the cycles. That happen in these companies aren’t just one or two companies.

It’s every single one has the same cycles and they’re just waiting for how can I, you know, bribe, give a bridge to pay the next leader to come over to keep this place afloat. Oh boy. I mean, that’s a whole nother zoom on its own.

Erin: We could do like five. Let’s do one. That has a binary. Let’s do one that talks about bridges and the reason for them, the need

Lisa: for so many fricking topics.

Like it’s not even funny, [00:43:00] but there are, the industry does not have to be bad though. Right. If people were honest with people immediately, if people got rid of the hype. You wouldn’t even lose people because the reason why I did so well in business is because I was super honest with people, right? I told people what it took.

I told them, don’t expect to make money your first year. I told them all the things I didn’t hype it up with the, oh my gosh. Um, you know, you’re going to come in and make a million dollars next month. And that’s what everybody does. And then when a person comes into that industry and they don’t see a million dollars their first month, they’re like, I must be doing something wrong.

I suck at this. I quit. Where if they were set up correctly, they, they would stay longer. So if people, you know, there’s just so many things about the industry that’s wrong with the industry, but there’s also some right things. And if they would just. Teach people a [00:44:00] different way it could look completely different.

It really could be a solid, more real business, so to speak. Versus something that people look at as a scam. Why do you think so many people say this is, Oh, that’s a pyramid scheme. That’s a scam because I waited tables for years. And one thing I know about when I waited tables is if I gave somebody good service, they would go tell two people if I gave you bad service, you’d go tell 10.

So this is why the industry of MLM gets such a bad rap because they’re promised the moon. Then they join and nothing happens and so they quit and they go tell 20 people what a scam it was. When really MLM doesn’t, isn’t a scam, it’s a viable business or it would be shut down, right? I mean, some, it should, it could be a viable business, should I say.

Right. Bye. The problem is, is people ruin the industry [00:45:00] and these owners ruin the industry. And I’m sorry, but when it’s just the same dude that keeps skipping companies to me, it’s just making a quick buck. That’s what it’s about. And listen, I’m not here to judge people on making a quick buck. Isn’t that what the world is about?

We all work to make a buck, but there’s a good way to do that. And a really shady gross. Icky way to do that. And I just feel like if I would have continued going down that path and picking another MLM company that operated like that, which they all do, I would have again, been compromising my integrity and.

Yeah, it just would have been the same cycle and I knew that the definition of insanity is is repeating itself over and over. I had to do something different.

Erin: Understand. Well, I, um, I feel like we could talk 10 more times. I’ve learned a ton from you in the year of knowing you, to be honest. Um, [00:46:00] I still continue to learn from you and I really think that your honesty is needed.

And I think that vulnerability, I mean, I, I, I made. Your phrase that you said earlier, I, I made all this money and I left with nothing to show for it. Like, I feel like that, I wish everybody could hear that so that they know, so that they can learn so that they don’t make the same mistake. It’s, it’s kind of a mission that I’m on too.