Episode 7: We Bought the Story

Full Transcript:

Erin: [00:00:00] well, we have officially been chatting off camera for the last 20 minutes and we could continue chatting about haircuts and highlights and shaker bottles and business and work and life because mainly we’re trying to avoid this, but I really am excited to do this conversation and. Um, as a, as one more intro, I know we do an intro to this podcast, but I want to remind everybody that MLM exposed is not some sort of bash fest.

I’ve spent a lot of time kind of creeping on the anti -MLM sites, and that’s not what we are. We’re not anti MLM. We never will be. We still have friends. I still buy from my friends. I will buy from a friend significantly faster than I will buy from Walmart or Target or you know, a store. Um, but everybody’s story is worth sharing.

And there is a diagnosis out there called MLM PTSD. And I swear it needs to have a diagnosis code and be covered by insurance. Although insurance is another scam that we should talk about. But anyways, [00:01:00] um, this is my friend, Heidi. I’m super excited to chat with Heidi. Heidi is one of my very favorite people and, um, is a total partner in crime with me in my life.

And we have. You know, we didn’t know each other what it was at five years ago, and now she knows all my deepest darkest secrets. So Heidi’s story is very interesting, and it will have some similarities to stories we’ve shared in the past, but hers are I don’t know. I’m not going to spoil it. Um, but I’m very excited to hear from Mrs Heidi.

So Heidi, um, I guess just, you know, give us just a little bit of background and then I’m going to ask you some questions. How about that? Who are you? Where are you from?

Heidi: So I’m from Colorado. Um, the important things married, uh, two kiddos, a 12 and eight year old, um, which is kind of crazy just because when I think about it, I got into the MLM industry when I was pregnant with my second.

And so when I say that, I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is, I’ve been with, I’ve been in the MLM industry, [00:02:00] um, for a while. And so, yeah, just kind of, yeah, shocking to think that it’s been that long. Um, but when I look,

Erin: Oh, sorry. When I, uh, when I look back at the time that I spent there, I spent longer in MLM, which neither of us are a part of that anymore, but I spent longer in MLM than I did any other job in my

Heidi: adult life.

Okay. Yeah. So I did. Well, I’ve done hair and I actually, um, just retired from doing hair. It was in 2020, but did hair for, uh, 18 years and I really do feel blessed. I did something that I loved. Um, and I still love, you know, I do it for friends here and there. Um, but when I became a mom. My priorities and my love and my passion really quickly shifted and changed.

Um, I, you know, had the dream and the goal of, you know, being in the salon industry, owning my own salons, starting chains of salons and doing all that. But again, when you become a mom, all of a sudden, you know, your desires [00:03:00] change. And my desire was to be with my kids, to be there, to be present, to not miss those moments.

And for those of you that know, if you guys know anything about hairstylists or that industry, like that is your baby. Like that is how you make your money is you are married to that salon and it’s the priority and it takes a lot of time to truly be successful like in that industry. And so, um, as much as I did love it and it was such a blessing, I’m really actually thankful now to be out of it, which is kind of crazy to say.

I never thought I would say that, but here we are. And yeah. Really grateful for where I am right now. Um, and I do, I have some, I have some stories to share. And like Erin said, this isn’t to, you know, bash or criticize MLM, but also just to share your story and let you guys know, um, what’s out there and what happens.

And, um, I’m sure that there’s some people that can relate to my story and, um, my experience. And so I’m excited just to share that with you guys.

Erin: Yeah, I think that, um, I think that what I wish, woulda, coulda, shoulda, [00:04:00] is that I wish I would have found a podcast or a blog or something back in 2011 when I was looking at this.

And I, and I don’t even know if I would have made a different decision. I, I probably still would have jumped in. I probably still would have given it everything I had, but I would have at least known, right? So that’s this phase of where you’re like, Ignorance on fire or where you don’t even know the problem.

I don’t, there’s some, some studies about that. At least I would have known my weaknesses. At least I would have known what I was getting into and I think I just would have behaved differently. So anyways, um, here we are and maybe it’s not too late. So tell me how you got into MLM. You were doing hair, you were pregnant with second baby.

Um, what, how did you get introduced

Heidi: to it? So my friend actually invited me to come over to a party.

Um, I was going to cancel on her. She actually sent a reminder text that morning and was like, I’m so excited to see you. So I was like, crap, I’m going to go. I don’t know if you guys experience this, but when you’re pregnant you kind of bail on a lot of things So I was like, oh she’s excited to see me. I’m gonna [00:05:00] go So I went over there and this lady that was sharing about this company About this MLM company was telling her story.

She was a mom of three and she was doing this full time. She was making way more money than I was doing hair And she was in charge of her schedule. She had the freedom to drop her kids off at school, or actually not even have to take her kid to the daycare, which was my pain point at the time, was I was dropping my son off at daycare, and then I would pick him up at the end of the day, and I was missing all these moments.

I, you know, I would get there and they’d be like, this is what he did today. And it would, it would kill me. Like I would cry almost every single day that I dropped him off. Um, and so being pregnant, finding out that I’m pregnant with my second, I was like, I do not want to miss these moments. I don’t want to hear from somebody else what’s going on in my child’s life.

And again, going back to doing hair, like I was working eight to 10 hour days. Um, and just. Missing my baby so much and so [00:06:00] as this woman sitting here and she’s sharing this story I’m gonna be a hundred percent honest with you guys like I wish that somebody would have been back there and could have been back there and been a mentor to me and just been like Heidi like let’s think about this you know I’m a very emotional decision making type of person and I was emotional during that time you guys I was pregnant and this woman saw me the story and I was like I’m in never once did I try the products.

I didn’t even really know what the products were. I knew that they had this amazing wrap that I couldn’t even use because I was pregnant, and I was literally just praying to God that it actually worked. Um, but I just, I believed this woman, and she said some things at that party, when I questioned her, um, she would, she made comments just like, well, I’m a pastor’s wife.

You can trust me. Um, I come from, uh, the history of being raised in the church and, and those kind of things, to be honest with me at the time, they kind of, they gave me comfort. I was like, oh, she’s a pastor’s wife. She’s not gonna lie to me. She’s, she’s a sweet, genuine, kind person, which she was. Um, not saying that she wasn’t that person.[00:07:00]

But I based my decision basically just on her. No logic, no facts, no investigating. It was just like, okay, let’s do this. I want her life. I want what you have. I want to cut back the hours in the salon. So I’m all in. And so that’s how, that’s how it started. I had no idea what the MLM industry was. I didn’t, you know, I, if somebody would have said that term to me, then I don’t even know if I would have known what that was.

I just saw a business opportunity. I knew that I could work hard. And I knew that if I felt this way, other moms felt this way. And if this wrap worked, this could be really good. This could be really good. And there’s a lot of women that, you know, want to, the wrap is supposed to shrink your waist. And so what woman doesn’t want to shrink her waist, right?

So that’s, that was the intro. Um. Sue, my first MLM experience. And so, yeah,

Erin: yours is really similar to mine. I was working a million hours a day. Um, Raina was at, at daycare, Aaron was working nights. I was, you know, funneling her in, picking her up, doing dinner, doing [00:08:00] bath, wash, rinse, repeat. And I was just miserable.

And my little lady with her little lime green suitcase. That supposedly was making 6, 000 a month. I was like, well, there’s my ticket. And I, that’s

Heidi: what it was for me. It was 6, 000. She was making 6, 000. And I was like, what?

Erin: But we have to remember it was a double diamond. Again, it’s one of those things. I’m not positive.

I would have made any different decision. I probably still would have done it. I didn’t want to. You know, open a franchise. I wasn’t ready for real estate yet. I could, I thought I could do this, but it’s nice to know the truth, right? We knew a lot of air quote truth. We knew a lot of estimates. We knew a lot of averages and, um, my, I mean, my crazy thing, I did the same thing.

I started that night. I was like, here we go. But I already had been a customer. I had been a customer. I had like six box of wraps up in my closet and I had just never used one.

Heidi: You know, I say that it’s like we bought the story. Like we, like that’s, they [00:09:00] told a story and I love a good story and I was like, well, if, if she could do it, I could do it.

And so that’s what it was.

Erin: It literally could be the title of a book, I bought the story, that’s, I mean, and that’s really what gets a lot of people hurt is because if you have a good storyteller, um, he or she can tell them, tell themselves out of a, you know, can of garbage and make it sound really amazing.

And a lot of people get suckered in and that’s, I think that’s where the concept of the show comes from. But anyways. Okay. So did you have fast success?

Heidi: Okay, so I had a, I did have a little bit of success, but mind you, I was pregnant and so you guys like, I mean, I’m literally trying to work in the salon, take care of my son and then do this also.

Um, Oh,

I’ll get, I’ll get emotional real quick on this because the free time that I did have, I was glued to [00:10:00] my phone because I was told and I just, I, you know, I was so coachable and so teachable that here’s what you had to do to have the success. And the things that I want, what I was working for, um, I was losing more of that.

Like, I, you know, I wanted more time with my son. And then when I get home in the evenings, you know, I, I had to work this business. And so there’s a lot, that’s where the PTSD for me comes from. Um, is that like, I was sold this dream and I was so focused on getting this dream. But, like, he was right here and I still didn’t see him and so then after my daughter came, um, here I have this, like, newborn and I’m literally, like, breastfeeding her and those moments, there’s so many times to where I will look back and I will just burst into tears because I wasn’t there.

I wasn’t there and I wasn’t present with her as a newborn because I still, I was like, okay. I’ve got to get this business going because I want to be able to be home with them. And so, and [00:11:00] I was losing that time. And as I was breastfeeding and knowing that like I had to be back to work in the salon, um, I, so much of that time was focused on trying to build this business.

And, you know, again, like if somebody could have came back and give the logic. And it like helped me like realize that like, not that I’m, you know, again, we’re not company bashing company, company bashing, but it was such a hamster wheel, you know, what we realized very quickly is that maybe people did like these products, but they’d order them for a few months and they’d quit.

And so you are constantly replacing customers. You are constantly, I mean, it was nonstop working and you pump on the bricks a little bit and that business is going backwards. It’s, it’s not staying the same, like it is going backwards. Right. And so there’s this paranoia of like, I’ve got to keep going.

Because I’ve gotta reach this goal. And so, yeah, when I talk about PTSD, as you guys can see, like I, like, I still, like, I still need therapy from this because I lost precious times and moments with my babies and with my kids, and I wasn’t even aware of what I was doing. [00:12:00] Like, I wish somebody would’ve came back and been like, Heidi, like, just be here with them.

Like, you’re, you’re missing these moments. These, you’re not gonna get these back. Yeah. Um, but when you’re in that, In that culture, that hustle culture of just like, you, you’ve got to work harder and you’ve got to, I mean, it’s just, it’s an all or nothing and, um, it’s really easy to get caught up in. And I, and I know again, like for me, especially I’m a competitive person.

So it was really easy for me to get competitive and be like, well, she can do it. I can do it. Yep. And so, um, yeah.

Erin: I, I’m going to write this down because otherwise I’m going to forget it. There’s three things that you, you bring to my mind. One is every parent that has built something, every doctor, every business owner, every CEO, they’re, they’re always going to forever look back at a point in time where they were somewhere else.

And I, so I validate some of that to you because your kids at this, you know, this is where we go into like [00:13:00] actual friend mode here. We’re, we’re aside from MLM exposed, but as a mom um, I don’t remember Raina as a baby very much, and part of it was trauma, and part of it was stress, and part of it was her daddy and I weren’t getting along, and part of it was this damn MLM.

Um, but. I don’t regret it because as a teenager, I get to have her. So every parent that has gone and done big things or every parent that’s worked three jobs to just keep food on the table, I think we’re all rolling around in the same grief because life is short and time is short and we only get that one shot with those babies.

And so I can’t imagine one single mom or dad that doesn’t cry thinking of a moment that they get through. That being said, the PTSD that comes from us and that comes from you and that comes from so many out there is that what we were building was a facade.

Heidi: And I think that’s where, that’s totally where I like [00:14:00] totally like 1000% like you nailed it because.

I mean, shoulda, coulda, woulda, like, I know everything happens for a reason, but if I had right now, you know, what I’m doing right now, had that been the situation back then, I do feel like there would have been less, like, regret, because, because, um, there’s not so much of that, like, hustle mentality, there’s not that, like, push, and there’s also not that fear of, like, if I pump the brakes a little bit, I’m, I’m not gonna fall apart,

Erin: you don’t, you don’t get to pump the brakes in something that is a house built on sand, because if you pump the brakes, it all crumbles, and so, The hustle frenzy comes from a bunch of people that instinctually know that whether or not they would ever say it out loud, they know that it’s going to fall apart if they blink their eyes.

And the other piece that you already said, and maybe you didn’t know you said it was, I bought the story. So what happens once you’re in, you’ve already bought the story and all the pastor’s wife needs to do is keep reminding you that you’ve got to keep doing this if you want my life. You’ve got to keep doing this.

If you want my [00:15:00] life and the story is the only. thing that gets sold because there’s actually no substance.

Heidi: Yeah, like, so kind of going like touching on that too, like, so the pastor’s wife, we became friends and, um, and so she was, she was always encouraging me, always telling me, you know, and other things that looking back onto that bring a little bit of PTSD today that have affected me even today that I still have to work through is that if your friends and family don’t support you.

I mean, pretty much like cut them. Then they’re not really, then they don’t really care about you. Right. Um, keep asking until you’re blocked. Like I got told that like on social media, you keep asking until you’re blocked. Like these things that I, you guys, I, it’s kind of embarrassing to say, but I did, I can’t tell you how many people I had to go back and apologize.

I’m like, I am so sorry for those messages. Um, and how many people were like, I’m not buying your product. I’m not joining your business. Like, um, and so. There was even friendships that I lost through that, which is like kind of crazy because again in my mind I was [00:16:00] like, well, they’re not real friends if they’re not going to support me was Yeah, yeah, they’re just haters yeah, and they yeah, so anyways there’s like the PTSD with that because um Like I said, I lost friendships over it.

And so that was like kind of heartbreaking. But then having this woman who, like to me, I felt like at the time was a mentor, um, you know, here she’s speaking to me and she’s inviting me to her church and, and we’re growing closer and we have this like friendship that I feel like this is somebody that’s really close to me.

Well, I’m going to tell you guys like fast forward to like When kind of, um, you know, just kind of jumping into the end of that and when I was like, okay, like I can see the truth, like it is time to go. Um, you know, I don’t know. Do you, do you want me to share? Like, do we have time to share like what that looks like in the final few months?

We have

Erin: plenty of time. We haven’t even talked about the bonus buying. I mean, I got to ask you about that.

Heidi: So like, yeah, so that right. Okay. So that’s where everything started to crumble is actually what’s funny is everything started to crumble when I started to have the [00:17:00] most success. The most success, right?

So the business, um, you know, we went to a con a convention and you come back from the high and you’re telling everybody, and I mean, I was on the phone nonstop. I was sharing this with everybody and we got to this point to where I was, I was going to go double diamond and there was a big group of us that got together and we were going to all do what we call moves together and we were going to, I mean, I, the sounds, I feel like I shouldn’t say this, but it’s true.

We were going to buy volume to get our promotion. And it was kind of like this thing to where it’s like, listen, if you want to go double diamond, there’s these different boxes. Oh, talk about PTSD. We had all these papers and we’re filling in these boxes. Right. And every box had to be 400. And so we had a limit and I think it was a thousand dollars at the time.

That you could, that you could buy your promotion, right? So to fill the boxes. So I knew that, I knew that going into it. Well, me and my husband at that time, like we didn’t have the money in the bank to do that. And so I opened a credit card, like opened a credit card to do this. And knowing that I was going to put a thousand dollars on this credit [00:18:00] card.

Well, then when I got paid, we would, we paid off, right? Like that was the plan. So I got done and I got all the boxes filled. Well, then my friend’s like, well. Now we got to do it for your husband because my husband, I was going to go double diamond and we had him as a leg and he was going to go diamond.

And I was, I mean, I just felt sick to my stomach. I was like, what do you mean my husband? She was like, well, now we’re going to buy a thousand dollars in volume for him because he has to go diamond for you to go double diamond. And I, like, I remember calling my husband and I felt like I was, like, hyperventilating.

Like, 2, 000 at the time for us was a lot of money, you guys. Like, we didn’t, like, that was hard. That was, it was

Erin: terrifying. You had already spent 1, 000 and then she told you that you needed to spend another 1,

Heidi: 000. Yes. So that was in, in my… business, but then my husband who I like put his name and he had his business, it’s confusing, but some people might understand this.

So I had to buy a thousand dollars for him. And so my husband was like, well, okay, like we’re supposed to make this amount of money, you know, and the numbers are like, again, maybe it was just, I didn’t know, but I didn’t, I didn’t have an [00:19:00] exact amount of how much I was going to make. Like I knew it would be around.

But it was like a 3, 000 to 4, 000 difference. And so like I did again, maybe that’s also me and not knowing the comp plan, but I was a mess. And so we spend that money. Then we help our friends who they’re going diamond. Two other girls are going diamond. So we’re helping them buy volume for it. We had one girl that was going diamond.

She spent 800. To get diamond and then our paychecks come and i’ll never forget getting our paycheck and just being Like open it and just being like crushed like it was it was five thousand dollars is what we made But we spent two thousand dollars and mind you guys like we we hadn’t done taxes And then fast forward but next month we had to do the exact same thing Um, I wish I could tell you that we were responsible in this and we just used that money and paid the credit cards off But we didn’t like so then we have Like close to 5, 000 when it was all said and done in two months on our credit card.

Um, and around the same time, like a few months later, [00:20:00] um, you guys taxes is coming. We weren’t coached or trained or told anything about taxes. Again, we’re just, we’re just kind of going along and doing this and not, we’re not, we’re not being taught business savvy or being smart in a business. Right. Um, you guys are so much trauma, but what really was the deal kicker and what really like, Going through those moments, and supposed to be feeling excited, but feeling like sick to my stomach, having all this anxiety, was awful, but what was really awful was the third month came around, and, you know, we had already announced all over social media that we had earned 72, 000 in bonuses, me and my husband.

Mind you, we didn’t say that that was paid out over two years. Because you’re not supposed to do that. You just say, we just, we earned 72, 000 in bonuses, right? So we’re putting that all over our social media and then month three comes and we’re like, we can’t do this again. Like the check had already gone down the second month and we’re like, we can’t spend 2, 000 again to get these bonuses.

Like it’s, it’s [00:21:00] not, it’s not making sense. So we lost our double bonus, our double diamond bonus, and we lost our diamond. I think my husband maybe still had his diamond bonus at the time, but um, like gut wrenching. Like here, like we worked so hard for this. We paid all this money and we announced it all over social media and we lost it.

So instantly, like the imposter syndrome is thick. You all like, I’m like, I, like, I can’t even talk about this, but what was worse and what was the deal kicker is when the girls on my team who had trusted me and I was coaching them the same way that I was being coached also lost their diamond bonuses and there were tears.

I mean, I know that some of them were frustrated with me. Like one of the girls specifically, I remember being on the call and she’s like, I don’t understand, like, explain this to me. And I just was like, I can’t, like, I mean, I I’m sorry. You know, it was. It was awful. Um, so, funny, then, you know, fast forward a little bit, and we go on this cruise that, that we earned, that we literally had to pay an arm and a [00:22:00] leg to get on, because the only thing they paid for was a cruise, so they didn’t pay for the flights there, um, like the fee like the foods, the dri like any of that.

It was just the cruise. So, me and my husband go there, we’re on the cruise, and while we’re there, At this point, you guys, I’m gonna be honest, I already knew I was out. Like, I, I was like, I’m going on the cruise because we earned it, right? But like, I knew I was out. Like, I felt like such a fraud. I felt like I’d hurt so many people.

I had lost friendships and I had just, I was done. And while we were on that cruise, I remember this friend of mine who was, you know, she was the pastor’s wife. She gave me this whole long conversation when I basically told her, I was like, I can’t do this anymore. And she told me, um, that I, Basically wasn’t trusting God that I wasn’t rooted that God calls us to be rooted And if I wasn’t rooted that I wasn’t trusting him and that he would not bless me And I remember calling my mom in tears and just being like I don’t know what to do Like I I feel like a fraud.

I feel like I can’t do this anymore like I’m lying like this isn’t [00:23:00] honest, but like Am I being disobedient to God? Like, if God called me to this, does that mean I should stay rooted? That I should stay faithful? That I should stay loyal to this company? Um, for those of you that are watching, just to let you know, that is complete…

And utter like, excuse me, like bullshit, um, because that’s not what God calls us to do. He says to be rooted in Him. He does not say to be rooted in a company. And so my mom, luckily, like with all her wisdom, like helped me through that. And she’s like, Heidi, like you are not called to be rooted in one place.

And if you were there and God called you there, but now he’s calling you somewhere else, like, go like, you know, that and trust that, you know, that God’s speaking, you know, what he’s telling you and not somebody else. And so, um, Luckily, like, I have a mom that, you know, was able to, like, help me through that.

But I am telling you guys, like, it was, um, and the worst part was is then when I, you know, we came back from this cruise and a month later I was like, you know what, like, I’m gonna be honest, like, I can’t do this. Like, I’m out. Like, I love you. Like, I hope you understand. That person who I thought we were close friends with completely turned her back on me.

She had [00:24:00] everybody in the company blocking me, blocking me on social media as if I was like some awful, terrible person. She was coaching them to block me. And then, um, when she found out that I was going to go with another company, she did a video on her social media, mocking and joking the product that I was and company that I was moving to.

Um, And it was awful, like I remember just like crying, like this is somebody that I spent time with, like, she would take me around in a car, in her car, we would drive around and we would go to, um, these houses, these open houses to look at houses and dream about our dream home that we someday were going to live in, and we would go to like these million dollar homes.

And walk in there and she’d be like, this is what, this is our future. This is what we’re going to have. Like this person that like, I spent so much time with and all of a sudden, like complete, just like cut off, like you’re the devil. Stay away, stay away from everybody else. Um, It was awful. It was definitely [00:25:00] traumatizing and I just remember like crying to my husband being like, I thought we were friends, like, what just happened?

So I

Erin: never heard that part of the story. And you know, again, you’ve said this numerous times without maybe knowing it, but you bought the story. So I bought the story. I sold the story. I got fed the story the entire time and there was nothing else. There was nothing else to back it. So the story was all that you could cling to.

And here’s what I, I also think I was just thinking about it as you were talking. I really think you mentioned imposter syndrome and maybe this isn’t like a conscious thing that’s talked about in meetings in the back office. Okay. So like, maybe it’s not like an actual evil CEO or vice, you know, vice president or whatever.

Um, but I really do think that some of these companies. On purpose, maybe not out loud, but like, [00:26:00] the understatement, is to set people like you and me… And your friends, um, and even the pastor’s wife, like all she was doing was drinking the Kool Aid. Probably there’s like some underlying stuff there, right?

But she was drinking the same Kool Aid you were drinking and she was selling you the same story she had been sold. And what I think that these companies do is they set you up to buy those bonuses and to lose that. lose the rank and to post it all over your social media and to lean in and to go, um, and to rewire the, the, the term rewire is when people quit their jobs to do it.

I think they want you to feel like an imposter. I think they want you to feel the shame. And I think they want you to hide behind it because when you’re hiding behind the highlight reel and the story, you can’t get out of it. It’s too embarrassing. It’s too much. So when somebody does finally say enough of the bullshit.

If it wigs them out [00:27:00] because for the most part they fooled enough people like a cult would do that they keep everything super tight. They want you to have tax debt. You want to know why? Because if you have tax debt, you’ll work harder in your business. If you have tax debt, you’ll buy the bonus because you need the bonus.

If you have tax debt, you’ll sign up your trash can. And. Whatever, and you’ll drive the four hours and you’ll miss the entire childhood of your babies because you know that you’re, you’re building something on sand and all you’ve actually learned throughout the time period is the story

Heidi: because there’s nothing else.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing that is so hard to, you know, with. And again, this isn’t like all MLMs, but my experience with this first company, like, it was all about the house, the car, the life, like that is, it was like, we deserve this. And this is what you’re working for. And this, and, and so I, I mean, literally to the point to where we’re going around and looking at houses on like these tour of homes and being like, this is where this is where we’re going.

And I just [00:28:00] like, thank God that he protected us from starting to make really irresponsible financial choices as far as our home and our cars. Yes. Um, before it did get too bad to where then, then, I mean, then you could land yourself. I mean, we, by the time we left that company, we were 12, 000 in debt. And, and again, that’s also not being financially responsible, but what we were shown and what we were told is that we got to, we got to have this life that we got to post about, we got to share about because that’s what people want.

And so we have to draw them to it. Um, and so, you know, like, I mean, I got real good at telling my story. And, and talking about this life and about these 72, 000 bonuses. And then, all of a sudden, when I lost them, you know, I was like, Ugh. Like, you almost, in a way, you have this identity of, like, wait, who am I?

Like, I mean, I’m, I’m, you, like, it starts to, like, the, um, the facade starts to, like, fall away and peel away. And all of a sudden, you’re sitting there and you’re like, I’m, I’m not a double diamond. I don’t have 72, 000 in [00:29:00] bonuses. Shoot. I’m broke. I’m struggling right now and all my friends are broke. And now what?

And you didn’t, the story is a lot, it’s, and it’s heartbreaking and it’s such a hard reality. It’s so hard to swallow because you’re like, no, this is not, this is supposed to bring me home with my kids. Now I’ve got to work harder. Cause I’ve got to pay off a credit card debt that I didn’t even have before.

Yeah.

Erin: What else happens I think too, is. So, you know, I read books all the time and I do a lot of self development and I’m in this mode of like, you know, finding my identity and finding the vision for my life and, and, and building good habits that are a reflection of that vision and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay. That’s my, my spiel. I’m really working on that. And one of the things that I’ve learned is that you are a creature of your habits. And when you say you’re going to do something and you don’t do it, basically you’re proving to yourself that you’re a person that doesn’t do what she says. Okay, so that’s, that’s the, the, the gist of it.[00:30:00]

But in MLM, like I, I was just listening to your story. It’s almost like. It’s almost like they want people to start fibbing just a little bit. They want people to overextend. They want people to go into debt and not tell anybody. They want people to post the banner of the 72, 000 in bonuses. They want people to buy the fancy house because once you start fibbing, Bernie made off, right, like once you start, um, you know, cutting corners a little bit and just putting the shiny, you know, image on top of the piece of junk story.

Like. It’s not that dramatic, but once you start creeping it in, it gets easier and easier to just make shit up because that’s because once we start going down that path We’ve we’ve made that excuse for ourselves Like I think part of my shame when I look back is that I never fully drank the kool aid But I still told the story I I never fully [00:31:00] I knew I knew that there was something sketch and I knew that like Things were a little funky and I, I remember going to an event and there was like some guy in football pads next to me and ladies and tutus and everybody was jumping around and I knew it was a bunch of bullshit, but I still cheered and I still left.

Like we’re going to change our whole lives. Even though there was this little thing in my head feeling, I was feeling like a, you know, vacuum salesman. Like I was feeling a certain type of way and I still went for it. And every time I went for it, I got a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper.

And then they got me. You know,

Heidi: well, those events they have again, but we go back to that story and they have, they, you know, I mean, they’re smart, like, and of course they are, but they have that person up there that’s gonna tell that story that then you are sitting there and you’re like, I could do this. I can do this.

Like, you know, put my big girl pants on, like, I got this, like, I’m, I’m, you know, right. You’re, you have the doubts, but you kind of push the doubts down and you just think, okay, like, [00:32:00] I know, like if she can do this and we hear her story, if she can do this, then I can do it. So it’s possible, right? So those stories, um.

You know, and that’s another thing too, like, when you look back on it, red flags, like, there was no training at these events, there was no, there was nothing other than these happy stories and this hype. And so you go there and you get these happy stories and this hype and you come home and you think, I can do this, I can be this girl on stage, I, you buy the hype.

And so that doubt that you have, you know, kind of, you kind of push it away. And, yeah, when you’re talking about it, like, there were so many times where I was like, my stomach and my gut was telling me like, huh, like, this isn’t right.

Erin: But you just I think the best thing that ever happened to me was going to events outside of like, the, well, and even the corporate events.

I just started seeing, I think eventually I started seeing those stories with a different perspective. And sort of looking at the people that I was supposed to look up to and I didn’t like them. I didn’t like who they were. I didn’t like who they were behind the [00:33:00] scenes. Some of them I got to see behind the scenes.

I think it was easy for me to detach because I, I went to a few of the parties and I went to a few of the meetings where people really showed their shit and I was like, yeah, this is all a lie. And I,

Heidi: I never got there because that was roped off from me. So when I say that, like I went to the events, but the people that like, I was a double diamond, which was, it was good, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t what this company would consider good.

And they actually had people, was it presidential? I don’t, I can’t remember. You get to a certain status and you get this roped off section, um, even at the parties where they have like this VIP and you’re going to sit on these fancy, like white couches. And, but you don’t, but we can just see those people.

So we can take pictures of them. They like, they, I don’t know.

Erin: You know, what’s embarrassing is that. That was the first convention that I was a presidential. I probably wasn’t maintaining it. I was a hundred months pregnant with a buzz cut. Um, but I, I allowed myself to go sit behind those things, not for very long, but I sure did.

And it was [00:34:00] so uncomfortable, but yet again, I was so buried in the story that it was like, I don’t know. I was like, I had earned this. And then it was like

Heidi: going back to like high school and you’re like part of the cool kids club now. You know what I mean? Like you were a part of the

Erin: There’s usually the person that there’s a club about me about how people hate me.

I mean that you know what I’m saying like Yeah. Oh, it just, it went against my core character. I did, I went against literally my core beliefs and I just, I don’t really know why.

Heidi: And why did you do that? Because the story, you wanted the story to be you. I mean, you wanted that life. You wanted, you know what I mean?

Like you got to work harder because you go there and they do, they, they lay those stories on thick. Like do this for your kids. Like you’re doing this, like whatever that dream is that, you know, I was doing that for my kids. Like to spend more time with them. And so then you just tell yourself, you’re like, this is you, this is, you know what I mean?

Like you got to push past this, these goals, you got to work harder.

Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you pieced [00:35:00] out, you got blocked. Um, that was atrocious. You went to another company. Um, I know that you’re, you’re, I didn’t actually know. I thought your PTSD came from the second company. I don’t know. I mean, I know we’ve talked about some of this, but not, I didn’t know a lot of these stories.

Um, how long were you at the lipstick company?

Heidi: So I was at the lipstick company for two years, and what’s crazy is that my PTSD from the first company, as much as I tried to escape it, is still like, I feel like it’s still kind of, I think I was, at this point, so, I was so worried about hurting people.

I could basically leave it, and I hurt people, and I, and it was such a show. Well, then the second company came along, and you guys, it was, like, I’ll be honest, like, you guys, it was, it was fun. Like, we had so much fun slinging this lipstick that, I mean, it was, it was hard to even get your hands on, because it was out of stock.

And it was great, I mean, this lipstick lasted all day. And so I went from this company that was, like, destroying me to going to this, where it’s a bunch of women, and [00:36:00] we’re putting on lipstick, and we’re having a good time, and we’re getting dressed up, and we’re wearing tiara, tiaras, crowns, like, it was fun, and we had a good time, and I don’t regret that, because it was so much fun, but my big thing is, is that, like, I never wanted to hurt anybody else, I never wanted to hurt anyone, and when, after, like, the hype, Of this of this long lasting lipstick that was amazing after that hype went away I quickly saw that I could end up hurting people and what I mean by that is that with this company You buy you would buy large stock And so you would buy like, keep going, but

Erin: at some point in time, we have to talk about

Heidi: the tiaras.

Yeah. That’s not for everybody. Not every grown woman wants to wear a princess crown around and dress like you’re going to the prom. But it’s fine. Keep going. It’s fine. Um, but that’s so funny because I remember when I first got it, I was like, Oh, I’m doing this. I’m really, okay. I’m really doing this. I’m going to put this on.

Where in your house did you like put it on and look at the [00:37:00] mirror? Yeah. I don’t know, I gave it to my daughter and she got it. What was your, what rank were you when you got your crown? Um, well actually I think that, I think my upline was super sweet and so, oh my gosh she was so sweet. I think she gave us all crowns to make us feel special, um, when I first went.

So, I don’t think you’re really supposed to get a crown until you’re like the crown princess and then you get like, And then your crown gets bigger as you go. So the higher your rank, the bigger your crown.

Erin: I got it. Um, so I’m just gonna say that that’s a little bit similar to driving around looking at the houses.

That was very sweet of her. She sent you a beautiful crown.

Heidi: You guys, I am that person that like, I am a little girl that I love the romantic movies. My husband was just giving me crap about this the other day, he’s like, you like the happy romance movies. I was like, I do! I want the house with the white picket fence, and I want the crown with the kids, and we all have matching outfits.

Like, I get sold on that. I, like, I do. And so when I see that, I can jump in, you guys. I [00:38:00] can, I can be like, let’s, let’s do this. I’m yeah, I’m that person like I sold on a story and a dream because I’m a big dreamer. And so my thing is, is like, come back to reality, Heidi, like, let’s, let’s be an adult now.

Let’s take your crown off your million dollar home with the pool in the backyard. And let’s come back to, yeah. So anyways, fast forwarding, like I said, I didn’t want to hurt anybody. And that was my biggest fear. And so when, when this company was going up, we were going up. But I felt like as fast as we went up and everybody, everybody and their mom and their neighbor and their damn dog was selling this magical lipstick that it was everywhere.

And so we’re buying these large stocks of thousands of dollars. Again, that’s the PTSD. Talk about it. Right. Because I’m like. I’m spending thousands of dollars, um, this time trying to turn around and then sell it. Right? So the more you bought with this company, the higher percentage that you would get. So if you wanted to make 50% [00:39:00] on this tube of lipstick, you were going to buy, it was like 750 PV.

So I think it’s like 1, 500. Like, after tax and shipping, it’s like, so you’re buying like a thousand, over a thousand dollars worth of lipstick and then you have to turn around and sell it, right? Like, cause you’re, you’re distributing it. So, I’m gonna tell you guys right now, this is a side note, this was, from the jump, I should have saw this as a red flag and been like, Heidi, This is not for you, because I hate going to the post office.

I, I am the most irresponsible person when it comes to, Okay, Heidi, here’s the product, now give it to this person, right? You guys, people would get that lipstick and it would take them a week to two weeks to get it. Like, and they live next door. But like, that is like, that was not, I should have seen the red flag from the beginning that this wasn’t a good fit for me, but I was just trying to have fun and join some friends and sell some lipstick.

So anyways, we’re starting to get thousands of dollars of lipstick, and all of a sudden, People that are like, no longer wanting to do this business. Cause remember everybody was doing it. We’re going to Facebook [00:40:00] marketplace and selling the exact tube of lipstick for half the cost. Well, I’m not going to be mad at you.

Why would you buy it from me for 25 when you can buy it for 12 off of Facebook Marketplace? So it was like we were competing against something that wasn’t even fair. So again, me sitting down with the mom next door who wants to make it some extra money, I’m telling her to spend thousands of dollars, buy this lipstick, hoping that she’s going to sell it.

And it got to a point where I was like, I can’t do this anymore. Like I, I’m not going to be that person that I was with the other company and just push through these feelings of like, this isn’t working anymore. This is not, I can’t do this. This isn’t sustainable. Like I, I listened to my gut more in that.

And again, you guys, I have no, like, you know, Erin said, this is not bashing. I loved that, that experience. Like I had so much fun and it was a good time until it wasn’t until it just, for me, I was like. I don’t see myself doing this for another three, four years. I don’t see my business growing because it’s not, it’s not, it doesn’t make sense anymore.

[00:41:00] And so I got, I kind of tried to get out of that before I got hurt. And before I hurt anybody else still, um, still had like. Hurt somebody. One of the girls that was closest to me and we were doing it together. We were, I mean, literally, like, my success was a lot of, because of her. Because she was selling more lipstick than I was.

Like, I mean, she was a rock star. She was killing it. And we were working together. Well, what ended up happening is they have what is called this Lips Trip that you can go on. And it was a trip to Costa Rica. And again, our kids are friends, our husbands are friends, we are family, we are doing this together, all the events, I earn the trip and she doesn’t.

That was, again, like, talk about like, I’m supposed to be going to Costa Rica with my husband on this trip, and this person that literally is one of the main reasons why I’m doing it, like, we were partners, and she missed it by like, I mean, it was not by much, it was… It was hard. It was really hard to watch that and then go on this trip and not have her there.

And so that PTSD of like, I’m hurting people. [00:42:00] Like, I can’t keep doing this, you know? And, and then looking at her too, like, I started realizing like, she’s buying thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of lipstick every single month, and I know damn well she’s not gonna be able to sell that all.

I can’t keep doing this. Like, I can’t tell her to keep doing this. Um, yeah, we laugh about it today. Like she ended up selling her whole kit. Um, and for like half the cost just to try to like break even, because she was like, I can’t look at these products anymore because I mean, you guys, like when we put it together, I mean, like, I think we both realized we had like 15, 000 worth of product. So again, just like, uh, like it was, it was time to be done. And even though I, you know, maybe wish I would have. Maybe stepped out or left a little bit earlier. Um, just kind of seeing those red flags again and being like, okay, like this isn’t working. This isn’t, this isn’t something that we can continue to do.

And like I told you, Erin, like my, my heart has [00:43:00] always been that like, I want to help other moms. Like reach your goal, like whatever that goal is, like if it’s to stay home with their kids, if it’s literally just to make an extra 500, if I can’t sit down with you and honestly tell you that yes, you can do this, then I know that it’s, it’s not going to work and, and, you know, and especially that you can do this and not sell your soul, you know, like that you’re not going to have to put in 40 hours a week, or you’re going to have to buy thousands of dollars to then, you know, like, So many people don’t have that.

And I will never coach somebody, um, especially a mama that’s just trying to make an extra 500 to a thousand dollars a month to go take out a credit card, like to buy inventory.

Erin: What was your mission off of signing a quote unquote seller or a builder that would go spend the 1500 bucks? Was it, did you make more money off of selling the lipstick or did you make more money off of signing people to go

Heidi: sell it?

So trying to remember it was. Oh my gosh, it was like five years ago, but in order to get, so you got [00:44:00] paid on, I think it was five different ranks or five different, like, levels or whatever people, I had to have five people that I, like, personally brought in that had to order, I think it was 300 PV, so that’s like 600, 600, and they had, there was five people, and then it was different on each rank, so I think that, like, You made the most, which is kind of interesting, but you made the most percentage on that third and fourth, um, because they knew that the third and fourth, that’s where your organization really start to grow.

But if you didn’t have five on your first and second, then you didn’t get paid on your third and fourth. So yeah, it’s been a while. So I don’t, you know, I don’t know if comp plans have changed, but I remember it being like, Oh, this is a little.

Erin: I ask because, okay, so being devil’s advocate, you know, I, it makes me feel heebie jeebies thinking of people buying 1, 500 of lipstick or, you know, the leggings.

Did you [00:45:00] ever watch the LuLaRoe documentary?

Heidi: I did not, but, uh, my cousin’s wife that did it and.

Erin: Lord Jesus, you need to, you need to watch that documentary. Um, but you know, I’ve known people that did LuLaRoe and they bought all these leggings and it was like a frenzy just like it was with the lipstick where you try it fast enough, the top earners the top dogs would get the best leggings.

Did you guys have that happening too? Like the top right, the colors that everybody wanted. Did you guys have

Heidi: crazy? This is what we had. Is there cause everybody wanted to sell it. So there was out of stock issues to where when people would actually, this is what’s crazy, you guys, people would sign up. And I know that this doesn’t happen anymore, but people would sign up and there would be no product to purchase.

Um, and they had what was called the out of stock, like error, I guess. And so what we would do is we would wait until they would drop maybe like three colors and we would buy thousands of dollars of those colors. Us as leaders would buy thousands of dollars [00:46:00] of that color, um, to make sure that we had colors that we could then swap with people.

And this person would sign up and we’re like, okay. When the product comes in, you need to get online and you’ll have to keep refreshing and reloading. And it’s going to, it’s going to continue to time out and all this, but you need to buy 600 worth of blue, red lipstick. And they’re like, what am I going to do with that much of one color?

Well, then us, Like me, and my friend who did it with me, would have stock that then they could come to and they would give us all the blue red. So, like, when, by the time I was done with Seneges, I had probably 200 blue red lipsticks. Like, I had red lipstick that was gonna last me for life because that’s how I would make sure that my team could order so that I would get paid off of them, and then I would swap them to give them product that then they could sell.

I know that is, like, super confusing, and it was. I totally get what you’re saying. So yeah, it was, it was a lot.

Erin: So LuLaRoe, what they would, what they had happening was the, you know, the [00:47:00] system would refresh, they would go, they would do mommy and me, you know, just, you know, bundles, or they would do a new line that everybody wanted to get the muffin leggings, or everybody wanted to get the freaking marshmallow leggings, or whatever they were.

And so, isn’t that funny? Order as soon as possible. Yeah. But the top earners ended up always getting first dibs. And so the little guy that had a, you know, freaking bedroom full of leggings, they called them, Kim used to always call them Dorito leggings, like they got stuck with all the fugly leggings and the big dogs would get the awesome leggings.

And it just continued that cycle. So I will tell you, at least you figured out a way to help your little guy sell their stuff. Um, but I, I, I think that where, what question I always go to is, You know, just being devil’s advocate. So what’s the difference in terms of people getting hurt? Um, you know, I know boutique owners that have opened a boutique And they have a storefront or they have an online boutique and they have to order all their product And they’re reselling all of [00:48:00] it and they’re barely making it and we don’t fault the drop shippers that sell it to them.

We don’t fault that industry we just try to support a small business whereas in MLM it’s It’s predatory. I, I think here’s why it’s predatory. I think that if you’re going to own a boutique and you’re going to start it, you have to get a business license. You have to figure out all the sourcing. You have to go to market.

You have to go buy the stuff. And I mean, let’s say you’re just like selling stuff off of Alibaba. You still have to go figure all that out. And then you’re reselling it. There is no story to be sold. Whereas an MLM. It’s, it’s getting little mamas that love romance movies that will cry, you know, here, you know, watching a dog get hit by a car on a TikTok video, just like me, but like they get the Heidi’s of the world.

You’re smart as a whip and you’re an incredible business woman, but that’s not why you joined. They sell the story. They get you to spend a bunch of money. And [00:49:00] then people are stuck in something that they didn’t even, it’s like they blink and they’re in debt. You know, you said I left the whole spiel of a lot of times getting into these companies is like, come pay off debt and spend more time with your kids.

And what you’re saying is that I left with 12, 000 in debt, then later left with 15, 000 of lipstick, and I didn’t spend any time with my kids. And I heard a lot of people, that’s the actual

Heidi: story. Absolutely. Because what they don’t teach you and what they don’t show you is how to run a business, how to prioritize time, like nothing, nothing along those lines.

And so like you said, I like, I didn’t know how to run a business. I’m figuring out as I go. And then, you know, then you’re in it and you’re, and you it’s, it is, it’s a contagious, fun, momentum driven environment that you, you don’t even have time to think about it, you know, because it’s a hype. And so you’re just.

You’re just kind of going along and anytime that you kind of have like a doubt or something, you kind of push it away because then you, you know, someone’s telling you this, or you’re seeing this [00:50:00] and you’re hearing this story and you’re, so yeah, it’s really, it is really easy to get caught up in like the hype of it.

And like, and like I said, like get caught up in the story, which was me, like, like I said, like, I love a good story. And I love to think that like, if I could be that story and if I could have that success, like, and if I look at it too. Like, I was sharing the stories to get other people to join me because I was sharing my story and I looked like I was having success and there was a level of having success in, in both of them.

It just wasn’t all what it, what it, it wasn’t all 100% true. Not that I was lying, I think it was more just, um, not sharing all the ugliness. Right, it’s like,

Erin: it’s like when you have a, it’s like when you have a kid that tells some of the truth. Just leaves out the, you know, yes, I stayed up late, leaves, leaves out the fact that they accidentally figured out how to turn on their iPad past bedtime.

It’s just, and again, like [00:51:00] it’s going back to human behavior. Once you, once you fudge a little bit. It’s easier to fudge a little bit again, and it’s easier to do it a little bit again, and then all of a sudden, you believe it. It’s like, it’s like when you meet a narcissist, and you’re like, wow, you totally believe your own lies.

Like, I know a lot of people that I’m like, wow, you actually believe the bullshit that’s coming out of your mouth. Like, that’s what happens. It’s just it’s embarrassing. Um, here’s another topic. And then I know we’ll what we can put in it. We could do like 10 of these, by the way, because there’s so much to talk about.

But I am noticing right now in it’s April, the end of April of 2023, that the hype. Has only gotten worse. I think there’s a whole slew of people that are completely over it and I, and I think there is a slew of people that literally will never escape it.

Heidi: Yeah. You know what I’m thinking too? Like something that, I mean, we, we literally could, there could be so many different topics that we could talk about, but something [00:52:00] else that I think that these companies, whether they do it intentionally or not intentionally.

That’s not for me to decide, but I feel like they almost, um, they like prey on women that, that feel alone. You know, like I was a new mom. I didn’t have a lot of mom friends. I wanted to be a part of it. Right. And then all of a sudden, not only do I get this business and I’m going to have this dream, but I get a community and I get friendship.

Right. And, and that feels good. Like I’m a part of something and everybody wants to be a part of something, right? Like you want to be behind a cause that you feel like you’re doing good. Right. Like you feel like this is right. And so I think that, you know, what I’m seeing in today’s world, a lot of the hype and I think that what I’m watching is like friends that I know and that I love and they’re joining this hype and I want to like go and be like, let me save you.

Like, let me, let me show you the true colors. They have to experience that for themselves, right? But they’re joining these companies because they want to be a part of something. They want to be part of this community of these women that they’re showing these pictures. And, I mean, Erin, come on, they’ve, they’ve [00:53:00] played the game up a lot.

I mean, way more than when I first started. Like, you know, the company that I started, like, it was… You were part of something, but now, these people are doing photo shoots together, like, I mean, they, you know what I mean, like, if you get to a certain rank, you get a photo shoot with all your girlfriends, and the photos are all the girls, they’re laughing, and they’re smiling, and they’re together, and they have community, and they have sisterhood.

Who doesn’t want to be a part of that? Like, people now, I feel like, are getting caught up in joining that, more so than even joining to sell a product that they love. Um, again, it’s a story, like, I want to be a part of these women. They look like they’re successful. They’re beautiful. They’re having photo shoots.

They’re doing all that. Like I want to be a part of that. And there’s a lot of hype right now behind that.

Erin: Yeah, I agree. And I think it’s just addicting. I think that you forget how much substance you have as a human being. I think you forget how to, um, think for yourself. Um, when you look at. Like, I, I get obsessed with documentaries on cults.

Those are smart people that get sucked into cults. But [00:54:00] they follow somebody and they trust somebody and it just, it’s like they, they evolve as human beings to where there’s like a new truth. And so I see people in that industry that cannot. Escape it because they it’s almost like, even though they’re 40 years old, they’ve spent 10 years in an industry that’s been lying to them over and over and over again.

So they can’t see outside of it. And yet the statistic is that 2% of the population give MLM even a shot. So it’s like the other 98% is looking into the bubble. Like, what the F are you guys doing? You look like a bunch of idiots. But in within that 2%, it’s like the new norm. It’s like they’ve created a new norm.

And now they’re, they’re hype people, but they’re better

Heidi: than that. So I don’t know how to,

Erin: I don’t know, I don’t know how to combat that because I feel like if somebody would have come at me and called me on my bullshit. You know, seven years ago, I would have told them they were a hater. So anyway,

Heidi: you wonder, like, I wonder, I always wonder that too.[00:55:00]

Like what if somebody would have came to me and told me, so when I was, Oh, sorry about that. When I, um, when I was, you know, going through again, like the height of my career and then I then plummeting. During that time, the reason why I went to lipstick company is because a really good friend of mine that I lived with in college, um, was reaching out to me.

And she was like, Oh my gosh, Heidi, like you need to come do this. And she was just sharing what she was doing and along her journey and what she was doing and the success that she was having, she was having in a few months and it had taken me like two years to get to where she was having it in a few months.

And so I felt like I was already starting to see like. Wait, what I have might not actually be as good as what I think it is, like, and so I started, like, kind of listening to her and just, like, hearing her out, um, and then, you know, like, when all of it went down, I, like, went to her and I was, like, listen, like, show me what you got, because this is not it, um, and so, but I just, like, wondered, too, like, If, in that moment, before I went and joined that [00:56:00] lipstick company, I was pretty sold out for that, honestly.

Like I said, when it was good, it was good. Um, and so I don’t think I would have even seen the red flags. I think I would have been like, you’re crazy, like, I see the paychecks. Like, she showed me her paycheck, like, this is what it is, and so this is what it’s gonna be. Um, but I can tell you right now, I guarantee her paychecks aren’t the same as what they were.

Like, you know, I mean, you know, she’s, she’s still doing that and bless her heart, like, I love her, but like, I know that like those paychecks, you know, aren’t what they were. Yeah.

Erin: She’s caught behind the highlight reel. She’s caught behind the story. She’s built a life and she’s told thousands. About it, and it’s very, very hard to, to come out and say things aren’t as they seem.

yeah.

Heidi: That is true.