Selling From Her Hospital Room

Erin: [00:00:00] So Erin Clark here. I have a very good friend of mine; her name is Nicole, and you will soon see a lot of her. She is going to help co-host this conversation with me. We’ve had lots of discussions about MLM Exposed. We’ve talked about doing this for years and years and years, and we’re finally sitting down and getting the job done.

And we think that it’s more necessary than ever. The weird, the world, not the weird; the world is weirder than ever. The vultures are out, and we think this conversation is extremely relevant. So, Nicole, welcome. Let me tell you a little bit more about Nicole fast, then I, and then I’m going to shut up and let her tell her story.

So, I met Nicole. Nicole met me. Because of MLM Exposed.

When my mentor, leader, and friend and I used to be in this wine business, if you’ve listened to the episode with Jen, you heard all about the wine business and [00:01:00] all the things that, all the PTSD that came from that. But we would drink wine every Sunday night, and we would go live on Facebook and bitch about MLM. That was the gist of it. Pardon my French.

We called it m MLM Exposed. And the place that we were at was, we were tired of the BS. We knew there were flaws in the industry. We didn’t necessarily know what to do about them, but we knew we needed to do better. And so, Sunday nights were geared towards making fun of ourselves, making fun of d b posts that we had put up, making, just really talking about, the struggles that we had and trying to offer solutions.

It was fun, and we’ve talked about revitalizing that conversation for years. And here we finally are, but that is where Nicole found me and where I found Nicole. And I’ll tell you about Nicole, is that she is, the epitome of, she doesn’t always feel like this, but she is the epitome of living her life as authentically as she [00:02:00] possibly can. She is who she is. And when her light shines brightly, it’s like, can blind to the masses, right? It’s incredible. And so, I was drawn to her; for some reason, she was also drawn to me. She’s a multi-business owner. She’s an author.

She does all sorts of crazy amazing things. And she also has had a very wild story in MLM. So, we’ll have to be a little careful about her story. We certainly don’t want to get sued. We also want to be respectful; we do not want this to turn into a gossip fest. That’s not what this discussion is all about.

You’ll see that when you listen to these episodes. But Nicole, I would love for you to tell me your story. And even before the M MLM piece, what, where were you at in your life when MLM kind of, I don’t know, hopped in?

Nicole: So, it’s been a couple of years. [00:03:00] I was, so it was 2015 when I first heard about the first company. I only had like two experiences, but the first one did a doozy on me. Before I entered MLM, I was in the corporate world. I’m out of Las Vegas. So, in Las Vegas, you either are, you either work in the casinos or, I mean, really, what else is there to do?

So, I did corporate accounting for them. I started at 21, and before that, I had my businesses. I’ve always been an entrepreneur. So always working for myself was kind of like my thing. I think I owned my first business at 18, so I was right when the housing market crashed.

We always used to joke that—at least my family would joke—that I was a pregnant Mexican cleaning house. So, that was this ongoing joke right before I started, like, the casino business, which is what [00:04:00] my family did. So, when I turned 21, I went to work for the casinos and started in accounting.

I worked my way up. But for anybody who’s ever worked in corporate America, you know what it’s like, especially if you’re a woman—what it’s like to be the only woman in the boardroom. It’s not easy. So, I am a very vocal individual, and I was the same way when I was with my MLM.

Like, I just cannot help that at all. That’s why we’re drawn to each other. Oh gosh. Yeah. I could just, and that was something about MLM Exposed. The first time I saw it, I was like, these women are not afraid to speak out about things in the industry even though people don’t want to hear them.

And I think that drew me to it because when I saw MLM Exposed for the first time, I was at the height of my MLM career. And it wasn’t like I was coming to MLM Exposed, you know when I was in a spot where I was at a low point. I was at the height, and I was still like, oh no, here are things about the sketchy business.

But, before I got here, [00:05:00] I was in corporate accounting. I said the wrong thing to a male executive and got on their radar. And so, the first opportunity they had to give me the boot, they found a way to do that. I was in a situation where I went from being the youngest female—the youngest manager, period over two accounting departments on the strip to one day having no job. I was like 24 or 25 years old. I was young. I had a child at the time. I was starting to get to like lowest point, where I felt desperate.

I just remember Justin having to move in and help pay our bills. I decided I have [00:06:00] other random talents. I used to be a very talented baker, so I made tiered cakes and like make all these like, I don’t know, fondant creations and stuff like that.

And so, I had this wild, crazy idea of wanting to open a bakery and, if you guys have ever opened a brick-and-mortar business, obviously Aaron, you know that it takes a lot of upfront cash that I did not have. And, you know, when I left the casino world, it’s not like the casino business just fired you, right?

It’s a very old school here. So, then they just fired me. They, like, black-booked me. So, it’s not like I could go back to the casino business. They were like going to make sure I could never get another casino job again. And so, I felt like I was between a rock and a hard place, so I decided, all right, I got to pivot and change plans.

So, could I be a baker?

Erin: Can, can I say something fast? Both pieces of [00:07:00] your story, and I don’t even think we’ve ever put the parts together. The whole reason I went into M ml M wasn’t because of a male boss, so that’s wild. It was the female boss in my job that just, I mean, homegirl did not like me, and I was very vocal.

And it was at that meeting that I was told that my hair needed to be better, and my makeup needed to be better. And so, I wasn’t fired, but I was on the watch list. So, here’s my first story, and I also, unlike you, don’t have as good a follow-through, but I also love to bake and love art. I bought baking supplies, I made two cakes, and I made $45 a piece from them, and I probably spent $80 12 hours and ruined my kitchen trying to make a cake.

I was a want-to-be, Nicole. But anyways, keep going. I, I was a happy baker. I think I still love baking.

Nicole: things in my basement. I still do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That’s funny. Eventually, finally, get rid of this stuff. [00:08:00]

I mean, that’s what I was like, all right, I’m going to do this. I’m going to do it from home. It wasn’t like it was my first rodeo. It wasn’t like I hadn’t owned a business before. I was like, okay, I’m going to do all the things to get to, to have a business at home. Got my little cottage food license.

And so, you know, Justin’s like, all right, well, how will you find clientele? So, I’m like, okay, I will go on Facebook. And you guys, before, when I was in corporate accounting, I had no Facebook following. I didn’t even know how to use the dang platform. I mean, I had it in college, but I was like, you ever like looked at the flashbacks of your Facebook posts when you first started, and you’re just like, cringed at it?

That.

Erin: A thousand percent. Oh my God.

Nicole: All complaining. Oh my God. So, I was like. I figured out what mom’s groups were, right? So, I posted in this mom’s group and tested different cupcake recipes and all these different things. And I posted in this mom’s group. I wanted to do a cake tasting, and I just said, I’m posting a cake tasting at this place.

If [00:09:00] it’s going to be free, just come through. We’re just looking for people to taste stuff. And if any businesses would like to grab bags, just go in there. You know, if you guys want to leave any cards or anything like that, and as a girl, there are a bunch of businesses that, you know, left business cards or snacks or whatever the heck.

But this girl asked if she could come by and drop it off. It was, I guess, a sample. I was fine with that. She came to the place and left an oversized business card. It was bigger than the rest of the cards and had this person’s body on it like a before and after photo.

And so naturally, you were looking at it, and you’re like, what the heck? Of course, I asked her like, “what is this?” And she explained that she worked for a health and wellness company and, you know, you could lose inches and as little as 45 minutes and I looked at her like she had five heads, and I was like, okay, yeah, whatever.

I stuffed it in there and didn’t think anything of it. [00:10:00] She asked if she could add me on Facebook, and honestly, I was like, yeah, sure. Like, whatever. No big deal. That was my first encounter with the person. And probably about later, I think that person posted on Facebook about meeting like $500, about some sort of $500 bonus.

And I think I was just at a spot where I was trying to get the bakery up and going, and I saw the $500 post. And so, of course, I inquired about it. I was like, what is this? Yeah. And they immediately texted me because they had my n ber from Yep. Then, the meeting. And so, they gave me their pitch and, I’m the kind of person, you know, I thought that I, uh, was, I thought I read like all the details, you know, I asked, I was like, I want the terms of conditions.

I want to know what I’m getting myself into. And I read, I thought, I read and understood all the policies and procedures, and I read, you know, all the lines and details. And I, I thought I knew what I was getting into. And I specifically remember telling [00:11:00] this person. I will not build you a team.

Like, do not expect me to bring people in and recruit people. Like, I absolutely will not do that. I am coming, like I just, I, I’ll sell the product, and that is it. I do not want to build a team at all. Yep. And so, I thought I had

Erin: like, you know, this

Nicole: moral like a compass that I was coming into and, but that’s, that’s not a how, that’s how they get you, that’s how they get you.

I got into it.

Erin: Yeah. Jen and I talked previously. She’s had two experiences with MLMs and the times she joined. Ten tended to be the most vulnerable times. She was just in a place where she desperately needed it. It came up as an extra 500 or a thousand bucks, and she went for it.

And I think that anybody we speak to throughout these next couple of months of conversations will say something like that. It was a vulnerable time. I needed the extra income or whatever the case may be. And I [00:12:00] got kind of sucked in. And by the time I realized where I was or got my head above water.

Right? Like it was too far from in. So how did that business go for you? Give me the scoop.

Nicole: Well, I think so. I got, yeah, I don’t know that I did much. The first, probably I don’t. A couple of weeks or so, because I was very adamant about, like, I’m not going to pitch something to somebody that I haven’t tried.

So, like most MLMs, you know, they make you spend money to purchase this kit. And so, I waited for the kit to get there. So, when the kit came, I tried out some of the products, and, honestly, I put the cream on there. I could feel that tingle, that like minty. And so, I was like, maybe, I don’t know like perhaps it is working.

I’m not sure. I’m like an anal-retentive person. So, like, I like, I like measured, and I did the whole thing just because I was like, listen, if I’m going to ask people, [00:13:00] to use something, I want to make sure that it does work. And so, you know, to migrate great surprise after using like there, they have the four-step application, so I used the three of their applications and, shockingly enough, had some results.

And so, I was like, oh my God, maybe this stuff does work. So, then I started posting it on Facebook, and I was like, “Hey, I don’t know what this is, but this is what happened to me.” Right. So quickly, even though I had had no intention of the building said team, it just sort of happened. I hit that $500 bonus in about like three weeks or so.

And then my perspective was like, if it works for me, maybe it can, like work, work for other people. And so, the person I had signed up with kind of, I think, fed onto that, you know, and made me feel like we could be besties. [00:14:00] . , you know, how they’ll like kind of feed into that.

Like we could be besties. And I think probably knew because she, of course she, asked me like my story And so I think she probably could just feel that I was vulnerable because I went from having all the friends that I had had from corporate America.

Because I was kind of like tainted, you know? Like I couldn’t go to and do any of the things that they could go to. Like, I couldn’t go to any, I couldn’t go to, you know, casino night. I couldn’t go to the baseball games. Like I couldn’t go to any of the places with bosses and coworkers and, you know, everybody hangs out with each other.

I think that probably could feel that I was loneliness, right? Yeah. It was pretty lonely. Like, I lonely I have to make all new friends again. So, I think she probably felt that and I want to believe at first that she’s genuine but it wore off pretty fast.

[00:15:00] I started in corporate America over again. I went the private sector and so MLM really became like secondary income. But I was getting out of like debt and I started to feed into that.

Like, but you need this, they have you post like, it paid for your groceries, it paid for this bill, and it paid for… and it, I think it started to make you feel like all the things that you were doing were more catapulted and like higher. And so, it does something right to your mindset and you feel l was you have to keep going.

So, it Right. You know, when year was this? When did you start? 2015. I started in [00:16:00] 2015, I is thought.

Erin: like, so tell me what, tell me your theory about this. Because I started with that same company and my story was a little bit different, but I started and started just posting janky stuff on Facebook that in one way, shape or form could we get away with posting or have the interest that, that we had now.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because what has happened is that everybody in their dog in America haves posted. You know, just paid for my grocery bill with whatever. Yeah. So, I think that there, it was also a little bit wild, wild west at the time. There was also something a little bit, I mean, it was starting to seep in and, and you may have a different thought about this, but I feel like our we were at the same products and that kind of theme. I was also very lonely. I wasn’t in corporate America. My husband was a police officer. I was leaving corporate America and all of a sudden, I was part of this group of [00:17:00] people that I felt like I was a part of so suddenly. Social media it also looked like that too. So that played into that whole need to stay and desire to continue build and improve myself. And it lent into this whole different realm, not just paying my bills, but it like brought me into a whole different realm of desire for what I wanted out of that business.

I found for, so they have like these ranks, and I think for the 100 mark, then they have this like $10,000 bonus mark. And so that like particular rank but think that the network that I happened to have between those particular ranks, the people that were on my social media, those people weren’t, I don’t think really looking for like friends.

I don’t know that they paid, that. [00:18:00] Because they were people that were in the corporate world. And I think they honestly believed that as going to just become this stay-at-home mom and they thought I would bounce back because at the time I really have friends, to become this stay-at-home mom, college with or people that I worked with, and so on my way from this $500 bonus to this $1Have, they sort of teach you how to network.  . . So, I think that’s where the, the path between and I started to kind of separate because I, that particular company has this like really weird like, tactic on how to grow your network.

It’s this very spammy add everyone and their mother and their damn dog to your profile. And then like these “hey girl, hey” messages that I swear to God will haunt me in my sleep. I don’t know. I’m just not, I’m not, I might seem really outgoing.

It just feels very uncomfortable to do that. So

Nicole: I think they call it what now they call it a law of attraction or whatever they call,

Erin: whatever they call that style of marketing. Yep.

Nicole: And so, I just always wanted to build like, connection. I did a lot of my marketing like my, my growth in person-to-person events.

Like I started doing expos right before I hit that, like $10,000,  , bonus mark.  . , I did it in groups. So, I was inside those groups and things because I had the bakery and so I Right. Would go to these mom’s groups and that’s where I was like building these relationships with people. So, I was like, well, if I can build a relationship with a person with this bakery, then maybe I could do it with this M ml m.

And so I always, I always did things really different than other people and it made my relationship with people in that M MLM. I just never quite fit.

Erin: Right? So, it was like this…

Nicole: [00:20:00] weird sort of dynamic because it’s like I wanted to belong, but like, and I was performing. So, it’s like they kept me around, but it was just really weird.

Like it was this very weird, weird dynamic.

Erin: I was the same way. So, to give the listeners some background, it was,  , oh wait, did I cut out? Mm. Okay. I was the same way. Yeah. So, to give the listeners some background too, and, and I think that that is starting to change. People have really, people are really kind of rejecting the highlight reel at least a little bit.

. .  , yes, there are influencers. Yes, there are people with, you know, flashy lives. And yes, there are the perfect filters. There’s plenty of it on Instagram, but there are also, what’s, what’s come out of the last couple of years is a lot of real people.  . . And, and I feel like you probably felt this way too, but at that specific company, the sales tactic was that you had this perfect life—house built by wraps, carb purchase, you know, whatever.

Lots of people standing in front of their front porches and really fancy [00:21:00] clothes with their hands up in the air. Like they just don’t care. , yes. And talking about this life that they had built, and it all had to have really good filters and it all had to have, like, there were a lot of blondes and I’m not even against blonde.

Yes. It’s not anything about that. But there was a lot of very long blonde hair with really beautiful. Kids and backgrounds and homes and cars, and that’s again what was sold. So, you know, the wine business that I was in sold flashy parties with lots of alcohol and like BMWs, this was a different flash.

This was. This

Nicole: was

Erin: beautiful blonde women on top of rocks. I mean, I think one even had like a mermaid cost e on or something like that. That was, it was a, it was a lifestyle. And again, that’s a whole concept that we, that we could talk about at the end of this. I’m not surprised that you didn’t fit into that.

And I’m also not surprised that I didn’t fit into that. And I’m not surprised that we found each other because yeah, sometimes the black sheep tend to Yeah. To draw each other out. And I’m also not surprised that we didn’t make it. We didn’t survive, because I don’t [00:22:00] think that when you’re put in an environment where everybody needs to look the same, I think there’s going to be a lot of casualties. And so you told me a story that you were starting to build some moment .

You were starting to have some success, and then you got sick, you had your baby, and then you got sick. Tell me about what happened at that time.

Nicole: So, okay, so Justin and I got, we got pregnant, and I had Kingston, I think probably maybe eight weeks early. So he like, or he barely missed the NICU, so he, we were like real super close to the NICU. Yep. So that was April of 2016. And so, I think it was right before they have like this next rank. Right. So I have Kingston and I think probably like there’s something, there was just something about his pregnancy.

Like I was, I got on bedrest a couple months before, so I kind of knew there was something like going on that I was like, okay, something, something’s not right here. And so, right after I have him, probably about two and a half weeks or so later, [00:23:00] I had this like, Pain, right? Like in my arm and I’m like, something and I end up in the hospital and it’s a massive blood clot.

Like we’re talking, like the thing was huge, like the blood clot is like this size and, and one along. And then the other one, it was kind of, it was smaller. But in my left lung, it was so big, my lung just like collapsed completely. And I just remember being in the hospital and like, they had to transport me to another one because they just couldn’t, like, one hospital couldn’t support the other one.

And so, uh, your postpartum, obviously you’re still bleeding from postpartum and so they have to give you blood thinners. Yeah. And my body started rejecting the antibiotics. I got it, got an infection. I got an infection, and I was there for, I missed the first like solid couple of weeks of Kingston’s life.

And so at, at some point they’ve tried giving me everything they told my husband like, Hey, does she have like, like a DNR? Like what? Like, you know, what are her plans? Like if she doesn’t make it, like, what do, what do we have to do? And it got to a point where like I, they had to put like, you know, the [00:24:00] catheter and all those things in, and like, you know, they’re, they’re like, she’s, we tried everything.

We’re trying everything. Like the infection. I couldn’t breathe on my own anymore. Like my lungs had completely collapsed. I think the space between like where I could breathe was getting smaller and smaller. And they were just like, you know, we, they were going to have to like, cut me open and try to drain them.

And they’re like, even then, like her body was just like, the infection was just growing everywhere. So they were just like, we’re not, you know, we don’t know if she’s going to make it through the night. So that, that night that they told me, or they told my husband, hey, she, we don’t, just don’t know if she’s going to make it through tonight.

That, that morning I had text the person that I had signed up with. And at that point I thought we were kind of, I mean, I’d been there about a year and, I asked them, I told them what was going on. I was like, listen, you know, obviously I’ve been here for a couple of weeks. You guys know I’m in the hospital.

I said, they don’t think I’m going to make it through the night. There’s a couple of things. One, like I need to know how to will my business to my husband. Like how do I do that? Because [00:25:00] I read in the policies and procedures that you can do that. So like, how do I do that? I need to get to this rank, this double rank.

And I, because I needed to leave my family money at this point, you know, I was obviously working in corporate, I still was making cakes on the side and I had this income, and while at the time I think the income was giving me like an extra, anywhere from like $2,000-ish a month, maybe a little less than that, I was like, you know, this double ranked promised like 4,000 or something.

Six. And I was like six, okay. I couldn’t remember. And I was like, the double, the double

Erin: diamond is what it’s called. Rank was the whole reason I got into that company because 6,000 a month

Nicole: and I was like, okay. Yeah, So I was like, I, I just want to be able to give. And at the time I thought it was residual because what I had, yeah.

It just, mm. And I, so I asked her, what do I need to do? How far, how far am I away? And [00:26:00] her response, which still to this day, I keep the text messages just to, it’s a, yeah. Still to this day, her response was too, well, the first one was, I’m so sorry to hear that. The second one was, how much can you spend to get there?

And I remember just thinking like, well, we’re not, like, what do you mean we’re not allowed to do that? Because the, I mean, the FTC, you’re not allowed to. Bonus bias is literally, it’s against the rules. We’re not allowed to do it. It’s in the policies and procedures that you can’t that. So, I was like, well, well, what do you mean?

Like, you’re not allowed to do that. But I think I was in such a desperate moment, in such desperation, because I was like, well, what’s it matters? I mean, if I die tomorrow, what the fuck? Does it matter? Like, right. What does it matter? I’m not going to be here. And all I could think about was. My husband at home with a brand-new baby.

And how was he going to, you know, what, what was he going to do and so I told her I have $1,200, that’s what I have. And [00:27:00] I gave them the whole thing. I gave him all of it. And then the person that had me up, I think spent like a thousand dollars. And then that person’s, the person above her spent like a thousand dollars.

And so that then that night I mean, that’s a different topic, but anyways, I obviously made it through very interest, very scary experience. But they ended up being able to drain my lung. And I like woke up the next morning and made a miraculous, like I miraculously walked, and I had walked in weeks.

So, and then they took me down to have my, my lung drained, and I had to be awake for the whole thing. They cut my back open, stuck the thing down and sucked whatever they could out of me. And I just remember just being in this excruciating pain but thinking about my kids the whole time. Like I would do just about anything obviously, to survive.

And then the end of that month comes, I obviously hit that rank. Come to find out the person above me hits this rank called Triple. And the person above them hits this rank called Presidential. And I just thought to myself, they were so casual [00:28:00] about it, it didn’t, they, it, it, they were going to do it anyways.

I just knew they were going to do it anyways. I just made it easier for them because I coughed up whatever little money, I was that my family had had.

Erin: So, it’s so crazy because you told me this story last week. I’ve heard this story before, but I didn’t even think about it like that because I was like, how were they so casual about it?

Like, I’m surprised they didn’t go to you. You had to come to them. Yeah, I’m, she said, I’m sorry to hear that, but how much can you spend? So the, their plan was to get the job done no matter what. Oh, they were going to fill those boxes. You just happened to be a near death experience and made it $1,200 cheaper for them.

Nicole: Yeah. Okay.

Erin: I, okay. There’s way more to this story, but a couple of things. N ber one, one thing that stands out is that I think that a lot of families that get caught up into this are maybe not at near death, but they are at a place where they are parents saying, I would do anything for my [00:29:00] kids. I would do anything for my family.

Whether it’s selling trinkets on the side of the road or spending 1200 to make 1400, or whatever the case may be. That’s why people get caught in over their heads. Here’s a question for you and I didn’t prepare you for this, so, so. You answer the way that you want to answer, but in general, especially with the sleazy kind of things, is it the chicken or the egg?

Do bad people get into MLM or does MLM make people bad?

Nicole: That’s a good question. It’s a shameful question because

Erin: I’ve done MLM, so I have some shame.

Nicole: Yeah.

Erin: That surrounds me. Was I bad or did it make me bad? Or did I, am I good because I escaped it? Like I ask myself that question all the

Nicole: time.

What do you think happens? Honestly, I think that both things can be true as simultaneous simultaneously. Like I think that sketchy people can enter the MLM sphere. [00:30:00] No. Like knowing, knowing that it can be easily exploitable, but I also think that really good people, Can enter with really good hearts. You want to be accepted, or whether it’s this instinctual part of you to just like want to do everything you possibly can to for your kids or for some people it’s this, like, I had people on my team that after that experience happened, they put me on this like pedestal, right?

Like, oh my God, look at this amazing thing that she did right when she was on her near deathbed. And they kind of made me this like weird celebrity, right? But nobody really told the story of, well, you know, she had to spend $1,200. And it was really, obviously no one’s going to say that, even though it felt telling the story of this felt so gross because it wasn’t really the whole true story.

And at some point, the truth came out to my team, obviously. Yeah. And it’s because I told them the truth because, right. I could not, [00:31:00] no. I was like, well no, that’s not exactly how it happened. But how that backfired was that they then felt. That to achieve that they must do that. And so, I ended up it, it ended up creating this place where I would tell them, no, there’s a better way we can do this a better way.

And so, for some, it created this resentment like, well, you got the job done. You’re only, yeah, you’re only saying that because you want to be the only one to, to be able to have that. And then other people were like, I really respect the fact. You’re seeing this and you don’t want us to get in the same situation.

So, it really, so I think that those, oh, there were some angsts. I think that that two, those two things can be true simultaneously.

Erin: I think we need to explain too, when she’s talking about a better way, and we’re talking about spending money at the end of the month, here’s why this happens. So companies, you know, this specific company had a bonus that was, if you hit a certain rank, if you hit a diamond [00:32:00] status, you got a $10,000 bonus.

If you hit the double diamond status, you got a $25,000 bonus. Is that right? Were those the Correct, it was like 10,000 and 20,000 or 20. I think at some point they may have buried, but that’s probably, and then they doubled them at some point in time, and that’s another whole red flag in and of itself. So,  , but what happens is, These companies will throw out these bonuses.

If you get to this status at this point in time, you get a bonus. However, the bonus is not paid out in full. So $10,000 isn’t deposited into your bank account that next month because you’ve hit a certain goal. It’s paid out over 25 months, or it was for us in, at that specific place. Yeah, $400 a month for 25 months or whatever.

So when I was there, 12

Nicole: months, over 12 months, yeah. For us it was over 12 months. At some point, I think in like 2017, maybe way later, because yeah, when I left,

Erin: because I earned a quote unquote, I’m using air quotes here, a $100,000 bonus, [00:33:00] it would’ve been in 2015, and it was paid out over the 25 months.

So, it was $4,000.

Nicole: Yeah. My hundred thousand dollars bonus in 2017 was paid out in, I think, 13 months, so they changed it. Interesting.

Erin: Okay. Okay. It’s paid out over an extended amount of time. So, the purpose of this conversation is that what ends up happening to people is that, and, and I mean, you can decide whether this makes sense to you or not.

For me, I still can’t fig, I mean, it made sense to me if I had a $4,000 bonus on the line and I was $2,000 away from getting it and I busted my butt all the way through the end of the month, I was sure going to buy $2,000 worth of stuff or figure out how to do that so that I could make the 4,000 y It’s, it made total sense to me when I look back at it and the closet full of product that I had,  , and the people that were spending 300 to make 600 y it was just wild.

It was just, [00:34:00] it was such a false business, and it wasn’t the fact that people spending 300 to make 600, they didn’t go in the negative. But here’s how they did go in the negative. They pushed that for so long and they spent they spent more money than, I mean, it was a whole bunch of people spending five to make six.

So, there was no real business there. Okay, so when you were on your deathbed spending 1200 and then your upline person spent another 1500 and her upline spent another 2000 or whatever it was, that wasn’t a real business that hit that goal. And what these companies do is they throw out these big bonuses knowing that that’s going to happen, whether they say it out loud or not, whether it’s allowed in quote unquote policies and procedures.

They know that people are going to break those. They know, that get, people are going to, you know, sign up their trash can and their dog and their grandma that passed away in 97. They know people are going to do that, and then they know that those people are going to lose those bonuses. And so what they’ve done is they’ve created this false [00:35:00] culture of these people that have these hero stories that then can’t go back on the story because you don’t want to lose your status.

And it’s not just because of the paycheck, it’s because of the, the

Nicole: shame. . Oh yeah. I mean, at that point it’s like, so the first hero story they created for me was, you’re on your deathbed and you hit this double. I didn’t, I mean, I didn’t even get a chance to say anything about it before they already created, what was I going to say?

What could I say? What could I say? I could say nothing because at that point, like a total fraud. Right. At that point, they already created the story and created the storm. I couldn’t say anything. So it’s like they just create this monster and you can’t get, I’m past it. So you’re like monster

Erin: too, like just to rant.

Okay. What kind of freaking story is that? Anyway, look at Nicole. She almost died. Nobody came to save her. Nobody even like, was really grieving with her. They said, sorry to hear that. And then, but she still made double diamond. She was U, she was in the [00:36:00] hospital and she still made double. And you guys can do it too, what they’re teaching.

Yeah. Is that at all? That, that bar like at no prisoners taken. You better get your rank done. And there’s no excuses for you. Even if your kid is sick, even if your mom just passed away, even if you have literally all the life been thrown at you, you better get it done because Nicole did, and she was nearly

Nicole: dead.

And here’s the crazy thing. Disgusting. The crazy thing is that in my head I literally, and at some point, I think I was like, you know what? I just, I want to ask, like I need to ask for the things I need to be grateful for because I had a corporate job. And I did, you know, I had to stop making cakes because I was sick at some point in time.

Then I, you know, got di I had a really just rough, ugly, just like all the rest of 2016. I mean, I hit that double red at some point. I obviously fell apart. The entire thing fell apart. Right. Because that’s when I realized there is no residual, there is no residual. Right. There’s none. Not building anything that’s real.

[00:37:00] No, exactly. Because it’s all fake private purchases. Well, so has 2016 finishes. I was telling myself, well, yeah, I was in the hospital, but like I, if I owned a bakery, like I was going to make no income and then I, I’m at a corporate job, like you’re in the hospital, like I could make no income.

And so, I don’t want to get it twisted. Like I do believe that internet-based businesses do fill some sort of role. 100%. I do think that, but what I just cannot swallow is that some of the tactics that these companies use is just, So outlandish and disgusting that it makes it really hard for legitimate internet businesses to fill that role.

Right, right. And so, I think for me, I, I kind of like, it was really easy right? To, to get me to suck into that narrative because I was on my deathbed because I [00:38:00] was the person who couldn’t make any other income other than that because I physically could not go to a job and I physically could not make the cakes.

So, it was really easy for me to get swept up right in that story. And then the, and then that was just the first hero story that they created for me. As time went on 2016, like, I got sicker and sicker and sicker. I mean, I, y’all not to t m i, but I bled for eight damn months straight. Every single day. I sometimes I couldn’t even get out of bed.

It was, so eventually they figure out girls got female cancer going on down there, and so they gotta rip everything out. So, it’s the end of. What, 2016 battling with the insurance companies or whatever. And at this point I’m like, okay, I have dwindled, whatever business is has dwindled down. I, you know, 2017, I, I don’t even think I could go to their little conference that they had because I had my, I think I had my hysterectomy at the beginning of 2017.

So, I was like, all right, you know, [00:39:00] can’t travel, can’t do anything. Sure. So, the person that I had signed up with, you know, I was their bestie when they wanted $1,200 to get to that double ring. Yep. But they were nowhere to be found for the entire rest of that year. And I think at some point I really did some, like deep digging.

When I realized that I needed a hysterectomy, I was never going to have another child. And I had had a conversation with that person and just told them, and this. I mean, this is who I am as a person. I told them directly, listen, I’m branching off going on my own island, away from y’all. And whatever, you know, people that I can work with, I will, I’ll work with them because I’ve realized again, I’m going to make no other income but this.

And I just told them like, I, I don’t, I don’t like you people. I don’t, you’re bad. You guys are not good h ans. You’re just not good h ans. You’re, this is, these are all the things that I don’t like about this model. And I told them specifically, you know, the story y’all created and are [00:40:00] making people think they need to spend 400 to get to eight, you know, get 800.

And I just, that made me feel sick and gross. So my mother’s sudden got very, and I know we’re going to have an episode about Herbalife, but they got real harmed about, harmed from that thing that happened with the Hispanic community. And so I. Specifically said, I don’t want to be a part of anything with people got product in their damn closet.

I can’t, I can’t do that. So I gotta think of another way. I gotta do something different. So 2017, the beginning of 2017 rolled around that particular person. I signed up with posts on our team page, Hey, I’m going to go presidential and I’m going to take X person, triple. That person was a person on my team underneath me.

So they created this dramatic storm, right, to get everybody all riled up and realize like it’s them versus me. And that’s what they do. Let

Erin: me, let me just simple it down. [00:41:00] For anybody that hasn’t

Nicole: ever done a business like this,

Erin: what they did in that post, because what happens in M Ml M specifically certain companies and, and this one specifically, is that for you to hit a status or a rank, you had to have certain people at certain ranks in certain legs.

Okay? Yeah. So like in your little pyramid or whatever, people don’t want to call it a pyramid, but in your little chart we called it charts. Ugh. The boxes, you had to have a certain status. And so the status that this person needed was a triple diamond. Yeah. Nicole would have been that triple diamond, but she told this person to buzz off.

And so that person took somebody beneath Nicole, publicly posted as this person being my triple so that I can go presidential. And let me just say too, n ber one, what that did was that outed Nicole, that she wasn’t going to be that person. And then it fed that beast of loneliness. That is the whole reason why a lot of people get, [00:42:00] get people into MLMs is to, is to,  , make them feel like they’re a part of something.

And so then you get ousted. It’s a huge part of the culture is who’s who’s in the in crowd and who’s not. And so what she did was she just publicly outed you as her person. And one more thing that ends up happening is that people start to, to lay claim on they want to please that next person. They want to be the A player, they want to be the triple for the press.

And  , so I just wanted to explain what that actually, what actually happened there. Yeah,

Nicole: and, and that’s, and that’s exactly what happened is they just, they did that so strategically to make it like, to create this really toxic culture of you versus me in this very, and it’s because they couldn’t face the reality that I did not like.

Them. And I did not like the behavior. And I was, I was completely dismissive of, Hey, I made a, you know, a draw a line in the sand. We’re [00:43:00] not going to buy product that we’re not going to use. We are not going to use this model. We’re leaving your team page. We are, I’m out like, peace. You know, we’re not going to, I refuse to, I’m not signing people up and leaving them the pack of wolves.

Like I wanted to create something right that mirrored more like corporate America, come in, have a training system, like I wanted to, to do what? Honestly, I thought that it should have been mirrored like forever, right? And so I saw that post and,  , I, I looked at my husband and, you know, a couple months before that he kind of just told me, Hey, like you, you’re going to do it or you’re not going to do it.

And I think that that was probably the sign that I needed. And so in my head I was like, all right, well, whatever, they’re going to do what they’re going to do and I’m going to do what I’m going to do. And so,  , I, I,  , I did just that. And so at that, I think at that time I was making like maybe 500 bucks. I worked my mother loving tail off.

, took all that product that I, I got together with a couple people that I was, you know, that [00:44:00] would’ve whatever, left that mess of mess. And we all got together and we started doing, we went back to what worked for me, which was in-person stuff. We, we did these like facial parties. We did these expos. I got back in front of people with product,  , and made it back to what was a real business.

And so we functioned how an actual direct sale business should function. And,  , uh, I went from that $500 rank to an actual 10,000 rank. I surpassed what they would’ve ever expected. So I went from that 500 to that triple in that I think like a month span. Then that following month, I, my, I, I got my husband to like double, and then that third month I hit triple or I hit presidential.

And so then, , their corporate office created this second hero story, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. Nicole went from $500 to this presidential diamond, right? [00:45:00] In three months. And before I knew it, like I did it for my family, but I also did it to just like, honestly say, uh, to you guys, to them because I just, I don’t know what it is about their toxic culture that just like activates this part of you.

It’s really crazy. But,  , but so then they created this second like hero story and it really caught the entire company by storm. And before I knew it, I was thrusted into this limelight I never asked for. And my story grew bigger than I could. Yep. And I was like on stages and I was on trainings and I was on, and, you know,  , I, I, so one of the businesses I own currently, I’m an astrologer.

I’ve been a practicing astrologer for a very long time. Astrology’s been a part of my life for, uh, as long as I can remember. And one of the methods that I used in charting, which Aaron kind of talked about briefly, was people’s astrological chart. I would pair [00:46:00] people up based on, some people use the color profile, but I base people together based on their astrological chart.

. . And at some point the word got out and like, then it’s like their, their corporate office started to like tailor my story. And like, you know, there were, they started to tell me things I couldn’t talk about. Like they didn’t want me talking about that. And they didn’t want me, like, I wasn’t allowed to talk about the, like, I could talk about the expos, but like, I couldn’t talk about what was really happening at the expos.

So at the expos, what was really happening is all that damn product that they were, you know, that was in people’s closets, shut down people’s closets and down their throats was being sold,

Erin: was being money. Did you make. Selling those products at Expos. So my,

Nicole: myself personally, I think in one year we made like 70 grand in just cash.

. .  , and so they started catering the story and it went from like being, you’re this, you’re this story that like, you know, people can, I don’t know, this comeback story, right?  . to being like, okay, now we’re going to fit you in this box. And [00:47:00] like, cater it to like how to what they didn’t highlight.

Yeah. To like what we want, how can we, how can we use it to our benefit? Right.  , and it then it really started to get really ugly. Cause I started to be able to kind of see behind  . and like see what was really happening.  . .  , and it just got rural like 2018, got that 2018 convention was really eye-opening.

, I think I started really ruffling feathers in 2017. I started asking questions and started. Kind of pushing the limit.  , they ended up making me like their marketing, like their ex, their, I don’t know, what do they call it, their diamond of the year or some crap just to kind of like keep me quiet

Erin: or satisfied.

. ,

Nicole:  , they offered me like a role on like one of their traveling tours. I got sick again. It was just really, I think the more questions you start to ask, right? They start to try to give you these accolades to try to silence you, but I’m not that person, so that [00:48:00] method didn’t work with. . So I think too,

Erin:  , you know, this part of your, two parts of your story that are actually very common, you’re very uncommon.

You know, you’re kind of a one of in a million personality and I think they didn’t know what to do with you. But I also think that they appeal to people like you and I that for whatever reason have enough daddy issues that when you piss us off  . , if I can get pissed, you cannot outwork me. Now I’m old now and I’m a little tired and like it’s not the same.

Erin Clark is not the same as she was in 2016, but if I am, if piss me off. and then get out of my way. And I think that people telling me that I can’t do something, I think that people getting condescending with me. I think that there’s something that happens and it goes way deep down to my childhood with the always Aaron Haters Club, right?

Yeah.  , put me on the outside and I will fight. Right. And I think that they know, and I think that they also appeal to people like that a lot of the [00:49:00] times. Again, this need for inclusion and need to please, they know that they’re doing that and so they find people like you and. That would cut our own arms off, , make Daddy proud, or whatever it is.

Right? So they, they got that part of you and, and  . Thank God that that part of you exists because you took care of your family and you showed again, it’s kind of like what the, what the casinos thought. Like she’ll never bounce back. Well, you always do. So there’s that  . .  , but I also think the second piece of it is that, and I, and I think we’ll have a lot of these conversations with leaders and I, and I want to talk to everybody, I want to hear everybody’s story, but I think that the leaders,  , have a different perspective because what happens to a leader is that they pull the curtain back.

Yeah. And once the curtain’s back, you can’t unsee what you’ve just seen. Yeah. Once you see the, the drunk person flapping around saying she’s going to, you know, she rules the world. Once you see the leaders and the, and the corporate staff and the [00:50:00] people in their real. You know, it’s, I don’t even know what movie I would use to describe it, but it’s almost like, and it happens at corporate America, it happens in real estate, it happens in schools.

It happens in churches like, oh yeah, this ain’t, this ain’t just MLM folks. Okay, so let’s just be real. But once you see people in their real element for as they really are, it changes things. And  , and I think that’s, yeah, I think you had that happen more than most. I think that you got to a place where you had something that they wanted.

, you mentioned that, and I don’t know how much we can even talk about, but you mentioned that one of the reasons why ultimately you are no longer at that organization is because those exposed that you were selling all that product and having all that success. They wanted your story to benefit them, but they also wanted

Nicole: the expose.

They wanted

those.

Erin: It makes sense. I understand why they would want them. Yeah.

Nicole:  , yeah, they,  , I mean, I think there were different layers of different things that they want, like [00:51:00] people wanted, like I think that the, like I think that the team Right, that I had like signed on with, I think they had a different agenda.

. ,  , they were local to me and they wanted me to go away. Right.

Erin: Like, they were

Nicole: like, Hey, like she’s just, I would, I disrupted their flow. Like I made it impossible. Well, not necessarily impossible, but I just made it, I made it more difficult, right. For them to do their business the way that they had always done it, because I gave people, A different voice.

I was the person that was posting on social media like, hey,  , you know, what happened a lot was that people would, we would hit ranks, right?  , let’s say we hit rank of presidential, but maybe you’re not maintaining that rank. And so I changed the conversation and I, instead of making it shameful to be like I hit presidential, and,  , they, people would keep, like, they would act as if, like they didn’t, they’d drop, they didn’t drop rank or stuff.[00:52:00]

My posts were,  , yeah, I am not maintaining presidential, but I’m making more as a triple than a presidential makes on your little income disclosure. And I would have proof for it. Like I would be posting what the, because you know, I’ve never been in an industry where people ask you to see your paychecks, but I understand people want transparency.

So every now and then I would be like, you know what,  , all right, fine. I will, I will post. A screenshot of what my transfer is for this month, and it will literally say on it, I’m paid as this rank. Here’s the transfer, here’s the income disclosure statement that says the averages. And that really disrupted people because I think it gave the public right at this point, my network had grown to the thousands.

I mean, I had what, 20,000 followers on Instagram? Thousands of, I don’t know, thousands of people on,  , Facebook looking at my posts. And people saw transparency and that really kind of [00:53:00] disrupted what other people were doing because they couldn’t. Lie anymore. They couldn’t lie. Well, when

Erin: you’re building, when you’re, you’re traditionally used to building a business where everybody’s having to buy in at the end of the month or where it’s unheard of, that people are losing their status.

Nobody wants to talk about it. It’s the un it’s the unsaid, shameful thing, which is why people get stuck there. I mean, listen, I swear the whole reason why I was brave enough to leave and start looking around and think like I’ve gotta figure out something different is because leaders started talking about what was really happening and, and the real, and I honestly think people would’ve lasted longer if we would’ve just been able to talk about it.

I, I think that in any organization, you know, taking MLM out of it, but in any organization when people feel too shameful,  , it’s you. You and I have worked together. I, I’m constantly trying to drag people out of the, the hidden closet because [00:54:00] shame is what it, we will deteriorate in shame. Yeah. When we hide and when we’re, when we’re so worried about disappointing others or when we’re so worried about disappointing ourselves or breaking the highlight reel, we die.

Yeah. But when we can be honest and be unapologetically who we are and give it our damnedest, that is when we soar. And I feel like those companies mess up too, when everybody feels like they have to hide behind who they’re supposed to be. So, like, I remember those posts and I don’t even know what, what would the FTC think about income being posted?

I guess you always posted the income disclosure always, which was part of it. Yeah. Cause you were like, Hey guys. the ranks don’t mean shit. Yeah. Cause you can do this in a different way and make your own rules and run a real business.  . .  , and what’s shameful about it is that the way that you were doing it was about as real as they come.

And they didn’t like it.

Nicole: They, they hated it. And that’s what, and that’s the thing is like, so, so mo so there was two different perspectives of things that I, I like, [00:55:00] really pissed everyone off. And it was like, and I, and I think that that’s what kind of hurt me because I was like, but, but I don’t understand why like, but anyone could do, anyone could take the model and do the same thing.

I don’t understand why. Right. And I think that that’s been sort of this lesson that I’ve had to learn in my life in general is that that’s the kind of person that I am. I come, I just. The normal flow of things. I just like finding a different way of doing things. And I think that a lot of people just in life in general, like they like doing things the way that things have always been done.

Right. But I, I just, my brain is just wired to find the mo the, the optimal way of doing something. But when it comes to business, my brain is wired to find the most lucrative way of doing something. Like, how can I, in within this framework help? Like, how can we make the most right out of whatever we have?

. . And I just, I think that I, my people, I, I cared so much about them, and I just feel like we got, we were such a close knit group of people. I [00:56:00] knew their families and I just was like, how can they, right. How can, how can. Not everybody had like a husband, right. That would watch the kids while I went to expo.

Like, not everyone had honestly the luxury that I had where like we really worked like as a team and so  . I was like, all right, well, you know, it got to a point where, for the expo, like we, we did profit sharing because I just did so many of them that like, we were able to, I was able to include my team that really pissed people off because they were just like, oh my god.

Like her team. Right. People from other teams that were not a part of my team at all were like, is there any way, like I would have people coming to the expos to train with me. Yep. And I, no problem. I got nothing to hide. I’ll teach you. Come, come on. I’d have people from other teams, they’ve come, they’d shadow us.

I would show them how we, how we sell all these products. I’m like, all you gotta, you can’t, I said you can’t bring your own product because our team paid for this expo. But I will teach you, you can watch us take. And they would get in there and [00:57:00] as the, as the expo would end, I’d be like, come on, j p in and you can talk with people and show them.

And it would piss people off to no end because they, I, which I don’t, I still do this, they don’t understand, but there’s enough for everyone. And I think that that like sort of abundance mindset really just irked people. So that I think the community, I mean there were plenty of people that were, that loved me because when eventually I did part ways, I did not experience a lot of the hatred and stuff that people experienced when they left the company.

Like I didn’t have that. Right. So I didn’t experience like really being kicked out. Right. Or being like plastered all over and stuff. Right. But I think when I was there, that was one of, those were several of the things that people really were like, I can’t believe this.  . on the corporate side, what they didn’t like was, you know, I asked questions like, why?

Why do you have a shell company for every single thing you’re doing? Like, they did not like that. They did not like that. I was like, this is sketch. Why are you like, why are you giving top leaders? Like they would bring in people who were supposed to be [00:58:00] business and tax professionals, like, and they were giving them li advice that I would, I mean, I was in the corporate accounting world.

I’m not a C P A, but I’ve heard plenty of business pitches. I would say that some of the advice that top leaders were getting from these quote professionals would be borderline illegal. I mean from like, yeah, I’m just like, so I would ask questions that I don’t think many people were asking. And so I think that they really were like, she has got a red flag.

Then,  , I, I wouldn’t give up information that they wanted.  , I was pretty kind of quiet about how to expose and stuff. Like I was open about how they were working, but I was super quiet about how I was negotiating the contracts.  , cause they were your contracts. Cause they were mine. What you got  .

Yeah. And I read all the policies and procedures and I wasn’t afraid to say that. So when, you know, their compliance department would call me and ask me for the contracts, I would say, well, policy [00:59:00] section 10 of one whatever says that I can enter into a contract on my own. And that your company, it’s separate so I don’t need to give it to you.

And I think that that really. Stirred up some trouble.  , and at some point they wanted me to do like trainings with just their top staff. And I said, no. If I’m going to do a training, it’s open to everybody.  . , if I’m doing a training on how to do what I do, it’s open to everyone. It is not open to just like your top 1%.

That’s not, no, because they already make hundreds of thousands of dollars. I want to help the person who’s just starting make 70 grand a year. And so that was, I, so that was part of the problem.  , but I think the, the, the icing on the cake that really just devastated me was that final conference in 2019.

So the expo, so in 2019, they were going to have me come to their conference and do a, like, expo training right. For everybody. So I was like, cool, I can do that. Fine. [01:00:00] So about, I don’t know, maybe two weeks before we were supposed to get there, they tell me they decided to cut that portion of the conference. So I was like, you know what, fine, whatever.

I’m not, I’m not even going to argue, even though I thought it was complete. Just crap. So they still invited me in a couple of like,  , just like our teammates at the time  . to their v i P box. But I get there, come to find out they were still doing like an not exactly an expo, but like an in-person panel.

And they replaced me with the person who had signed me up, the person that

Erin: texted you and asked you how much you could spend the person that publicly outed you and replaced you and talked crap, and there’s a whole bunch of other stuff. So not only did they, they dis you,  , because you wouldn’t give all the information, but they also replaced you with the person.

That had continuously stabbed you for the last however many years. And they probably, I guarantee they knew it. Guarantee. Oh no, they

Nicole: knew. Cause I had reported it. It’s not like I did, it wasn’t quite, I was, I reported it many times. It didn’t [01:01:00] matter.  , and so that was pretty, like, I think that was like the knife that really just like it.

I mean, I cried. I’m not a huge, like, at the time I wasn’t here, I wasn’t a healed person, so I didn’t do a lot of crying.  , but I broke down. Like, I, I cried. And I remember my regional at the time, my husband was demanding answers. Like, he was like, I have lost my wife. She has been sick. She has, I mean, I, he’s like, I’ve lost whole seasons of my wife to this company.

I am demanding answers right now. Like, I want to know why she is not on that stage. Why you are glorifying a person who’s made $700. Like making this retail cash you speak of, he’s like, Nicole brought in $70,000 on her own, and she can give stories of how her team, like how she’s taught her team to bring in these astronomical amounts of the money, how they have paid off.

I mean, our teams have paid off student loans, credit card bills. We had a team leader that remodeled her entire backyard all completely in cash, and they have no product in their closet. Don’t you think [01:02:00] that

Erin: that’s why? Partly because, yeah. Yes. It’s an ego thing. Yes, you pushed the limit too far, but it’s also their whole, their goal isn’t for the little guy to make a lot of money.

Nicole: It’s, yeah. So that’s eventually it finally clicked, but I think that for, it doesn’t fit the narrative. The problem was that our, my husband and I were so, like we were, we didn’t get it. We were so on our own island for so long that we forgot that. We forgot that like, oh. We are the anomaly, right? Like we forgot because we create, when we left and when we left these crazy people in 2017, we forgot that the culture we created on our own little island was not the actual culture.

Right. You know, and that’s what happens when you take yourself out of the toxicity and you create this bubble. You forget that that’s not what everyone else is doing. And we be, and like our people did not understand, like, right. Because the environment we created for them was this truly this [01:03:00] empowering.

We really were like this actual team and really, and so it was really devastating.  , it, that was just, that was, that was it. And they, and they, my did give me,  , did give me an answer why?  , and she just told me that the owner. Of the company did not want to put me on stage because he thought my story was too, it empowered too many people and he was, the company was basically undergoing just a lot of change.

And there was a lot of movement between like, people leaving the company and they just thought that if I forgot this, essentially wild hair and decided to leave, if too many people heard my story and were empowered by me, they would leave with me. And I was so devastated by that because I was naive enough to think that I could change, like I could, I could just change the world there.

Like I was, I didn’t, it did not occur to me. Like, I was like, why would I leave when I could just help everybody here do what I did? Right. It just, it didn’t,

Erin: it’s one of those [01:04:00] I, I’ve watched, I’ve watched many companies do this over and over and over again, and we’re picking on this group because this is what your background is.

But yeah, I’ve watched,  , it’s, it’s the. It’s the mindset of,  , it’s the opposite of abundance mindset. Yeah. It’s, it’s when you start accusing your partner of cheating over and over and over again, and then finally they’re like, fine, I’m going to get a girlfriend. I mean, God, you know,  , I, I’ve watched them do that out of fear because others had left.

They gave you even an option, I mean, and then forced your hand anyway. But I just feel like they, they had, I was just as naive as you. I would’ve never, I would’ve never gone anywhere even though I was, even though I was embarrassed and working myself to the actual bone and doing things different and trying desperately to train.

I mean, I will never forget two weeks before we ended up leaving,  , I did a video because it was during that [01:05:00] time on social media where we were starting to see profiles that said, no raps allowed. Yeah, when people were just getting my, mine was in, it would’ve been 2016. So this was before you were really, I mean this was before your story, but for me, yeah.

It was when we had already burned all the fields. I mean, from 2012 to 2016, all we did was post all day about join my team two. And honestly, that’s why

Nicole: I was like, I have like, I have to do something differently. Do something different because

Erin: people are so burned. And so I had started that process and I remember doing this video and I titled it No wraps allowed, and it went nuts.

, and, and it was my first quote unquote, like I was so proud of it, like there was like 7,000 views or something. But in 2016 for me, I was like a nobody, I had a buzz cut. I was like, I had had this baby. Like it was really bad. I had had a Bernie Spears moment, like things were not going well for me. Yeah.

But I did this video and I was like, guys, we have to change it up or we’re hosed. Yeah. And I truly think my demise, I left two weeks later and I didn’t know I was going to leave. It was completely bizarre. But I think you and I would’ve been almost exactly the same because I [01:06:00] was already pushing. We both swim upstream.

We don’t do what everyone else is doing and we don’t look like what everyone else looks like, and we do take a different route and it doesn’t always work. I’m not saying I’m the smartest in the room, but I refuse

Nicole: to.

Erin: I don’t know. Anyways, I, I, uh, I, I would’ve had the same experience. I just ended up getting swept away sooner and then I was hated.

So the very end.  , are you comfortable sharing the, the last

Nicole: straw? Sure. I mean, yeah. I, I think that, so I mean, after that conference happened, I mean, I just, I, I really had my tail tail between my legs. I think I just was super devastated. That happened pretty early on. I think it literally happened like the first day.

, so I was pretty devastated. I remember sitting outside the v I p, my regional tried like to calm me down and I was just like, you have no idea. My heart is shattered, is broken. Yeah. I am devastated.  , and I just kinda remember sitting [01:07:00] outside there and there was someone else right, who came and she’s much, she’s been in the company for a really long time.

I think she was one of the first people that kinda started there. And she,  , pulled me off to the side and, and,  , she gave me this incredible pep talk and,  , it gave me hope. for the industry, not this company. Right.  , but what she told me was that, you know, hey, you, I, she, when I, when I started with this company, I did expose everybody was just doing like one-to-one like parties or however they were doing their thing, right?

. .  , and she was like, you, she said, they used to tell me like, she’s like, they would literally try to talk me out of it and tell me, you know, that this wasn’t okay and this, and this and that. And she was like, you know,  , she’s like, I will go home crying. Like the owner will call me directly and tell me like, I had to stop this.

And she was like, you know, I got to, they had the rank ambassador or whatever. She’s like, I got you ambassador doing what you did. And she’s like, you know,  , she’s like, anyways, when you came to this company, she was like, [01:08:00] I’ve watched you. My team looks up to you. You give us hope, right? To do it the right way.

And I just remember looking at her and I asked her like, you know, why do you stay here? Like, I’m so mad, I’m so upset. Like Right. What they’re telling me. And so she told me something along the lines of like, When you are the trendsetter, like you are the person that at first of course they don’t like you.

Of course, like of course people don’t understand, but you’re, you paved the way for the people that come after you to have it easier. And I have carried that from that moment forward for, for everything. It doesn’t just apply to M mlm, but it reminded me that like when we’re doing anything in life, right, and you’re the first person to have to like speak up right.

And do something, it is always like, you’re always the punching bag, right? Yeah.  , and so she, I just, I picked up my sadness and I was like, you know what? There is some little mama somewhere who’s got my sons on the spectr . And I just kept thinking [01:09:00] like, there’s someone somewhere, right? Who is just so desperate and they need.

They need a lifeline. And so I have to keep going. And  , you know, this was also during a time when they were launching in another country and I was at one point a part of that launch, and then they were trying to frame my story.  , as you know, their company basically saved my life and they wanted me to go into this particular country and basically say, Hey, like you join, come, you know, join the company.

And if you joined the company, like, you know, you could essentially like make the money she did and she saved her life and like, whatever, save her life, couldn’t do that. And, you know, I again thought back to the experience that Hispanics had with the other company and I just like, I just, I think in that moment from that person’s advice, I was like, I’m going to just, I’m going to stick with my moral code as best I can, right.[01:10:00]

And continue forward. That happened in February. Uh, I had had a trip planned for my 30th birthday in April. Oh, no. In March, I landed the biggest expo contract, I think, in the history of ever. It’s huge, massive contract. I got so excited. I contacted my team and we’re talking like a hundred thousand dollars a, a contract was worth a hundred thousand dollars.

I contacted my team. It was, we would put my team, I mean, our team was small, but we all made a lot, we all made a lot of money. Well, I didn’t, we didn’t have a huge team. We was, we had a small team that made a lot of money, and so I contacted them. We created a profit sharing program. The word got out that I got the contract because people were just like, our team was just, they couldn’t believe it.

I mean, people, when I had the Zoom to tell them that we got the contract and everyone was going to get a piece of it, that I, we were sharing it. I, there was no, they couldn’t contain themselves. So it got out, meaning the wraps. Correct.

Erin: Yeah. So you, and, and at these expos, I think we need to

Nicole: Well, it could, it [01:11:00] could have

Erin: been, yeah.

A lot of different product. There were other products at the time. Yeah. If you go to the expos and you sell them for cash, that was a

Nicole: part of the process. Well, so this particular contract, this the co the actual, how this one worked is that the co, the company contracted me or my, my corporation, and they pre-bought a hundred thousand dollars worth of product at retail.

So how I worked it out with my team was one, one wrap or one keto cash, depending on how the retail worked or whatever it was. I think it was. So one wrap equaled one share. So they Right. Yeah. Had to give me one wrap and it equaled one share. Right. And so, because there is no way that my husband and. Could have, so that the, that expo was in September.

Right. So there was a no way that my husband and I could have, have that much more Yeah. Could have purchased enough products like we, I, and it didn’t matter. Even if we could, I was never going, everything I had worked for was leading up to getting a [01:12:00] contract like this so that my team could benefit. Like, it was never, the plan was never to do it alone.

Right. And so, oh, we had finally reached it. I was so excited. I mean, people cried. I mean, this was, this was money that I think the, the little mama that joined for 500 bucks, it was more money than she could wrap her mind around.  . . And there were people that were like, I just signed up with a kit. I’ve got eight wraps right now.

I will send them to you right now. I’m like, perfect. You need to, and I’ll just, I’m,

I’m

Erin: not butting in, but I am butting in because that was completely legal. That is what we did. Yeah. We sold wraps for wrap cash. Yep. We, we had huge trainings teaching how to make wrap cash. It’s because, and that’s how you paid for your kit.

You got your $99 kit and then you sold your wraps, and you made that money back. There’s nothing. Wrong with getting a contract to go sell your reps?

Nicole: Yes. So, what I had done is I just, I, so basically, I had contracted with this expo company. What they wanted is they were ma they make these e, these VIP what did they make?

These grab bags, these executive grab bags. And they were [01:13:00] putting these like product kit kits together. Yep, yep. They’re putting them inside the bags. And so and so yeah, so they had, whatever they had like the me their media companies sponsored the bags with the bags themselves are free because the key is, and I think what compliance was trying to get me caught up in is that the, I don’t, they were, they were trying to say that like the bags are resold.

Like you can’t re, those people can’t resell them because they’re not distributors. And I was like, well they’re not reselling them. That’s the thing. They’re buying them both bags are free. The people the media companies sponsor the companies that are in the bag that’s how we got the contract. So anyways, I.

But I wouldn’t give them the media companies, I wouldn’t give them the expo company, I wouldn’t give them the contacts. I wasn’t giving them anything And so it got around, compliance reached out to me, and they wanted to make sure that I was in compliance. And so I, instead of giving them the contract my husband contacted the expo company and had them write a [01:14:00] notarized letter basically saying that, hey, no, like we are not reselling these bags.

The bags are free.They didn’t tell them how much the contract, because I, I rounded the amount, the amount was more than a hundred thousand dollars, but I rounded it.  , and I didn’t tell them how long the contract was for either because I was business, well I’m, I’m gathering up anyways. Uh, I think it was April 17th or whenever we got paid.

I think it was 12:15, something like that. Anyways, I woke up, they locked me out of my account. So I woke up to my husband, my mom, me, were all locked out and first it was because the lockout was because they said that I was bonus buying, or first they said it was because I was, I was in compliant because of the expo contract.

They said that I was they were reselling it. I was selling it to someone who was reselling it. So, they wanted proof of that. Then, so then my, my husband gives them, gets the notarized letter. So then legal had no choice [01:15:00] then it was, so you were fine. So, yes.

Erin: And they won.

Nicole: Yeah. And they paid you. But then they, then they, my short, my check was short, like 10 grand.

So, then my husband’s like, mind you, I’m in Italy, literally at the Vatican praying. And, uh, he’s dealing with this, and he is not happy. Right? So, he’s pissed. And so then they were saying, well, you made a lot of purchases at the end of the month, so you’re bonus buying. And he’s like, I. I literally just told you, like, you literally just got a piece of paper.

And they’re like, well, that piece of paper doesn’t prove how much you need for the, for the expo, so how do we know? And he’s like, we’re not even up for any bonuses. My wife doesn’t qualify for any bonuses, so how could you even prove? So, he went back and forth with them. So, then I think eventually, I got home while I was at the Vatican.

I literally was like, I just, I want out of just all this mess. Like I just, this whole thing, I’m just so stressed out. I come home, [01:16:00] we eventually, they eventually let go of whatever that issue is, but it didn’t matter because the toxic people that I worked with, the, the team I had signed up for, they caught it by storm.

They had infected whatever brand I had; they had told everybody that. The expo was fake and that I was scamming people and it just, the r or spread like wildfire and it just, it just got so out of control. And I think the last final thing there is a clause in the contract, in the policies and procedures that you can’t, people can’t share credit cards.

So, the credit, there’s the same credit card on me, my husband and my mom’s account. Well, me, my husband and my mom all shared a credit card. Like we literally all had us a credit card and so they wouldn’t budge on it. They said that it didn’t matter that we all are on the account together, it didn’t matter.

We all cannot use the same credit card. And so, they were [01:17:00] canceling us. I got a call from a corporate officer, and they were like, I think we can work something out if you’re willing to negotiate something with us. As far as the ex was go, I told them to see them, give

Erin: us your expo contract and we’ll give you your paycheck.

Nicole: Well, you can keep your account essentially like you can stay with us. You can, you can stay

Erin: if you give us the contract. Yeah. So here, so here’s the thing. So they got you on the credit cards, although you had had that same credit card on those three accounts for years.

Nicole: Oh since the dawn of time. And they even like had a, their compliance department even had to speak to my mother, because then at some point they were trying to say that like my mom wasn’t an active real distributor.

So, like my mom when she spoke with them was, well, I don’t sign people up. She had told them, honestly. She was like, I, I help my, my daughter pack stuff for an expo. I help her do some admin stuff. And she was like, I have never signed anybody up. She’s like, I put people’s names into, you know, an expo, [01:18:00] an Excel sheet.

She was like, as far as I know, I have, you know, Nicole has moved people to me,

Erin: which that was totally legal. Exactly. It’s what we did. There were no, you didn’t have to sign your own customers. I could build my mom and my husband, and I did. That is what I did. Yeah. Which, which, let me just be really clear too.

And, and that’s a totally another topic that we just need to make sure we write down, is that these companies allow you to solely a hundred percent. Build a family member or a spouse or whoever, or, or, or whoever. Right. Like I had girls that never basically worked two seconds, but they got lucky on a couple of

Nicole: businesses underneath of them.

And because I needed them, I continued to

Erin: build them. And I worked myself two death and never created any leadership because I. Building people. But to go back to your topic, all of that was legal. So yeah. What’s crazy is that I

Nicole: worried, which is why I think nothing came of that, because it’s not like she, like she didn’t lie, fine.

Was trying to catch everybody and lie. I think what they were trying to do was just kind of catch everybody [01:19:00] in like some sort of weird lie, well, I don’t even think it was that. Don’t you think

Erin: it was just they were just trying to say we’ve got to get rid of this girl? Or really what we want is the contract, what benefits us is to get that contract.

And so therefore we’re going to do any sort of audit that we possibly can to get caught in a trick bag so that the loud mouthy one goes away and we get the, the wedding contract that we

Nicole: couldn’t get. Yeah. I mean, me, I don’t know. I just think, I mean, I, I think I mull over so many possibilities, but I mean, even in the conversation with that particular, like, corporate exec, like corporate exec, I just asked them like, what do you think?

Like, what do you think is going to come of this? Like I have, I was like, after that’s happened, like, I’m going to want to stay here. Yeah. Like, I’m like, you know, I, what am I supposed to do? You’re backing me into a corner. And it’s like, I, I think I even told them like, I, you have made me feel like no person is safe here.

Yeah. And, and what was crazy to me is I was like, I thought of you people like, [01:20:00] honestly like family, but when I think back, you’ve never protected me. Not one single time, not a single time I’ve come to you guys with so many problems. My organization has been ransacked by my upline so many times. You guys have never, ever protected me.

But really, like, all I’ve ever wanted was r to be a part like of this organization. Yeah. Have I asked questions that I’m sure have major corporate staff super uncomfortable because you’ve had to answer questions of whatever is going on over there. Sure. But you know what, it’s, it’s apparent that we just cannot, we can’t have this working relationship.

So why, why would I, why would I do that? And I remember them specifically saying that I was never going to be able to fulfill that contract. and I said, you know what? You’re probably right. I, I can’t, I probably won’t be able to. And so he’s like, you know, what are you going to do about it? And I said, that’s between me and them.

. , I said, for all, you know, I might give that contract to my team.  . , maybe I’ll give it to them for free [01:21:00] and they can have it and they could benefit from it, but you will not benefit from it. Right. In my mind, I was like, over my dead body, like over my dead rotting soul. Right. What’s crazy too happened and it didn’t matter.

So what’s crazy

Erin: too to me is that I think you, you probably did make them feel very uncomfortable with some of the questions and some of the things that you would’ve called out. But what I also know about you too is that you’re extremely loyal. And I think a lot of people are, I think a lot of people because the people pleasers the type a’s the ones that would go through a brick wall. If you are loyal to me, I would hide the dead body. So, oh, for sure. You and I know that about you as well. So, if you would’ve asked those questions, even if they were uncomfortable, and they would’ve said, Nicole, here’s what’s up.

Like, we made this

Nicole: mistake, or we did this, you would’ve kept on track in anyway. Like, they didn’t

Erin: must treat you like dog dirt. They could have just protected you. And frankly, I don’t know, I, it, it just, it [01:22:00] boggles my mind and I think to that, you know, you can s you can see and, and we’re going, you know, we could go to, again, churches, corporate America schools Yeah.

Et cetera. When a place

Nicole: is run out of ego, it always ends.

Erin: It never ends well, always, when you really are there to serve and when you really are creating a culture of. Of what I would call abundance mentality and family, and, and you’re building something bigger than yourself. People stay, people leave leaders.

They don’t leave

Nicole: companies really. They leave

Erin: leadership. They leave lack of loyalty. They leave, they leave feeling I left, I left a company. I left when I was consulting in Alabama. They loved me. They, I mean, maybe they didn’t, maybe they would’ve ditched me in a hot second. But my boss was, she was kind to me and she took care of me and, and I left there loving them forever.

[01:23:00] Yeah. The next company that I went to work for would’ve run me over and backed up and made sure I was dead. And I left there with my middle finger up. Yeah. And had continued to rant about them ever since. I would’ve made them a ton of money. It didn’t have to be perfect. Like, it didn’t have to be flashy and shiny, et cetera.

I probably would’ve continued to annoy them, but they were so hateful to me that like, I would maybe back, back over. Do you know what I’m saying? Like, no love lost. And so, it just, it boggles my mind when people get a really talented person and they’re threatened instead of liking, welcoming you in because I bet you would’ve given

Nicole: them the contract.

I mean, I think that I just, it, it just blows my mind because it was like, you know, I really thought we could do some, some real good, like with the ML M industry and I thought that like, you know, we could do the things that the, I just really thought we could be different, you know, and do the [01:24:00] things that weren’t the sleazy things that people were accusing other companies of doing.

And I, I think that even leaving there, there are people that, in other companies and things that I’ve talked to that have truly been like, hey, you know what? Like yeah, you might have been doing stuff. Right. But it really opened my eyes to like, again, even if you’re on your own island, like doing your best inside a framework sometimes just isn’t enough.

Right. You know? And then it’s like you leave there, right? You’re like trying to lick your wounds. And then at a very short stint at a second company, very short, and it was a binary, which was terrible. And it’s like, you know, you’re promised all these things, right? You’re, you, they hear that you, oh, you’re talking about the next company?

Yeah. Like this. I the second, like, I mean, it’s very short st There’s not a big story here, like very small, but the person, like the CBD company hears, here’s that your, that you were booted out, right? They hear this tra atic story. They know that [01:25:00] you’re in pain and they promise you, this is the thing that kills me.

They promise you this like spot at the top of this, you know, brand new company, right? This groundbreaking, whatever. And then it’s like you, I’ve never been a huge fan of binaries. I just feel like it’s just this constant, like having to keep the legs balanced and this is a mess. Honestly, they paid paychecks on a Friday and closed their doors on a Monday. And it’s like this devastating experience that I think people, it’s like they have this hole they never really recover from. And it’s like that happens frequently. It’s like there are more startup MLMs with these groundbreaking opportunities.

Right. So, you left, so you left the first.

Erin: company got recruited basically. And again, I’ll just point out the obvious that it’s another person that got you in a vulnerable. A thing. Yeah. And [01:26:00] got you into something. And I will tell you, the same thing happened to me. It wasn’t a startup, but I went from one to another, thought it was going to be amazing, and it was even worse.

And then went to another and it was even worse. And I truly, like, I’m so grateful for those little hoppy moments because I learned, I mean, I saw all the good, the bad and the ugly, and there’s probably 50,000. I mean, we’re going to hear stories that, that expose even more but if I would’ve only participated in the one, I would’ve had this little, tiny bubble.

But I, but I got three and they were totally wildly different.

Nicole: very interesting. So yeah, I mean, I just, I think that I, I. I felt like I had an obligation right. To the people. So, so when that whole thing happened, I said, I didn’t really have the same experience as, as the people that had the choice to leave the, you know, they, I think a lot of them had experienced a lot of hate, right?

And they, so they had this very, like, they were shunned out and they, they kind of left with like their claws out. I left like licking my wounds of [01:27:00] sadness, right? I felt very depressed and like honestly a similar experience as being booted out of the casino industry. And I just felt like, oh my gosh, I’m like this shame.

I did get that and my team, I think was very torn because I feel like what I spoke to every single one of them and. Told them, like, listen, for one, I was afraid to get sued, so I couldn’t really say too much, but I just told them, listen, I will never ask any of you. Like they have families and, and you know, like they have families, they have to pay their bills.

And so, I just told them, I, you know, you have to do what’s best for your family and I love you, and I’m not going to ask you to do, I, I don’t want you to make a decision because of me. Well, half of them were like, no, something’s not right here. And so, I felt like I had this obligation to find, like, to figure something out for them.

And so, I, so obviously I, I became a customer doing some, doing a referral, well, became a customer, doing some sort of referral thing. And then [01:28:00] I, and then I got a call from this brown startup company, and they promised me this spot, the CBD company. I trusted that person because that person I knew at the first company.

And they were starting this company and they were like, they told me things that were going on in the first company to make me feel like it was worse than even I imagined and that all the, the things that I thought were going on were even worse. And it’s like, you know, I don’t have bad blood with that person.

I don’t, but I just feel like they just, I don’t know. I just think that they got sucked in. Like, they had business partners that I think were like, I just had a bad feeling from the get-go, and I really should have just trusted my instincts. And I didn’t, because I just felt like, I just felt the pressure of like, oh my gosh, I have people and I feel like I have to protect them.

And it, it was just, it was short-lived. It was short-lived. [01:29:00] It was, like I said, it was this binary. It just did not. It did not last long and…

Erin: paid, paid, paid paychecks on a Friday and closed down on a Monday. Yeah. We’ll have to, we’ll have to go through a separate conversation of maybe that kind of concept of the, of the brand new, of what happens, of how those companies start, what the goal of those companies are.

I’ve got a ton of opinions on that before we end this, what would be your MLM PTSD? Like if you were, if you were sitting with a doctor and there was a chart and it said MLM PTSD, what are, what are the symptoms that come out of you? What are the scars from that period in your life?

How does that show up in your life today?

Nicole: That’s such a good question. I think it’s; I honestly think it’s made, it really, it’s made it difficult for me to show up for people. Like I feel like I’ve [01:30:00] chosen businesses. That allowed me to be a little bit more hidden just because I have this, it has just taken me a while, right.

To sort of work through this

Erin: that sort of like team kind of fear.

Nicole: Like I feel like I let them down, you know? Even though I didn’t, even though like I didn’t do anything. But I just feel like, you know, I think especially with that, the last expo contract, like I think I really like, I, I felt like I, the last thing that that team heard from me was that we were going to change their life and it was going to be the most, like, I mean, yeah, actually the most life changing like experience and I mean, so I think that that really did on me because I just felt like I let them down and it’s like the dream didn’t just get ripped out from under me, but it got ripped out from all of those people that trusted me.

and that we’re along for that [01:31:00] ride. And so, it, it took me, it’s taken me a really long time to be able to kind of like trust myself with other people. Right and to allow myself to kind of be in situations where people can trust me. I mean, so I think that for sure. It’s also taken, it also took me a while, to be super comfortable, like, to be, to find the cold voice again.

Like I think I have spurts of it where I’m like, that rural, like just give no craps kind of attitude. Yeah. But I think that like, it’s just been a, it’s been a little while. I really think the company did a number on myself, just my self-confidence and like my voice. Because I just, I don’t know, I just do, I just, there’s some weird, there was a weird thing in the back of my mind constantly wondering you know, if.

If maybe this happened to me because I’m so outspoken or this happened to me because I’m this and this, [01:32:00] and I, so I think I got kind of, you know, sort of reconditioned into thinking that maybe if I just fit in the box better. Yeah. So, it took a lot of healing to be able to be comfortable in my skin again, just being okay. Being weird again. Right.

Erin: being weird. Yeah. I maybe this, maybe this series will heal you in ways that really nothing else can accept. Talking through it and sharing your journey and getting back to serving an audience that you always cared for, right.  , maybe hearing other stories and comebacks and tribulations and all the things will be healing not only for you and me and Jen and et cetera, but a lot of people that have taken themselves out of the team and, and put themselves on the bench because they think the problem is them.

Yeah. Right? and maybe some [01:33:00] people that are acting squeezy and misbehaving, but who are good people to the core.  Maybe it will, it’ll ruffle some feathers and cause some people to think, you know, again. These last few weeks I’ve been watching like anti-MLM channels. And the last thing I want to do is like, sit around and like screenshot these poor mamas.

Most of them. Listen, listen, little anti-MLM honeys is that most of what you do, you don’t even pick on the big dogs. You’re picking on the little dogs on these channels. Pick on these little mamas that are, they’re saying crap, they’re doing DB stuff, but like, go after the big fish.

Erin: because the, it’s not fair to tackle the little people.

So, I’m hoping that we can, we can do that in a different way, right? And really share things that might provide some value. And not just juice. But you had a lot of juice in tea, and I appreciate you sharing. And it’s funny because I’ve heard your [01:34:00] story in chunks over the past four years.

Like I’ve heard

Nicole: it in little chunks, like when you were like melting or when you

Erin: were upset or when you were just jotting about a story. But I’ve never heard it from top to bottom and it’s. Wild to me and I feel like, you know, karma’s

Nicole: a real “B.” So I think, honestly, what I’m hoping people get out of this podcast is what I got out of MLM Exposed when you guys first did it in 2017.

Like, I think that when I was at the height of my career and I was questioning whether I had the strength right to get off my own island and to do things a different way, I’ve had that strength. Like MLM Exposed never made me question the industry, right? Yeah. It made me question what I was doing in the industry, right?

It made me question like how I was showing up as a leader. It made me question how I was showing up on my own, you know, business and how I was doing things. And so what I hope people get out of this is the strength to do things differently, right? It’s the strength to do things more ethically.

It’s the, it’s the strength to, to [01:35:00] honestly be okay with going against the grain, even if everybody else is being crappy. And so, I think that like, I would hear you know, when, when I, when they gave me that like executive or whatever of the year, you know, Mara messaged me, and she forewarned me. These, you know, these people are not what they seem.

And she kind of made me like, it’s like I had this comforting feeling right, of being like, you know what? My instincts are not astray. And so, watching you guys be comfortable in your skin and being like, Hey, this is what’s going on, and this stuff’s not okay, made me like, I was not afraid I didn’t have to go incognito, right?

To watch you guys. Although every now and then I would be like, okay. I’m not going to watch it live. Maybe I’ll watch the replay. I’m not going to comment. We had a lot of people do that. I’ll watch it and you know what, that’s okay too. Like y’all can watch, y’all don’t have to comment. Y’all can watch it. The replay.

You don’t have to tell us you’re here if you are like, you know, some big dog in some place. But what I hope you get out of it is [01:36:00] what, what I got out of it when it first started, it gave me this, it honestly really did give me the confidence to keep going and be the person I needed to be so that I could get on my, honestly, get away from them and get on my own island and create the culture I needed to create so that I could be that person that I needed to be.

And so that’s what I hope we can give back to other people. And then the people that are coming into the industry, I hope that you are able to get the support you need so you don’t have to make the mistakes that, you know, some of these people have made. And so kind of just that, that good full circle kind of feel.

I love it. Yeah. I love it friend.

Erin: Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I’m very excited, until next time!